Episode 15 – Can Speech Be Compelled

Episode 15

The Sex Offender Registry: Vengeful, unconstitutional and due for full repeal

The rapist of 13-year-old at church camp got no prison time. Now, thousands want the judge removed.

Tarrant County judge used electric shocks to punish sex offender, who is getting a new trial

This Case Could Help Prevent Congress From Outsourcing Its Power

Judge Orders California to Consider Earlier Parole for Sex Offenders

Ordinance would keep sex offenders from living in Vernon

Wisconsin Doubles GPS Monitoring Despite 5 Years Of Malfunctions, Unnecessary Jailings

Supreme Court: Sex offender can have Xbox and PlayStation back

How “predictive algorithms” are being abused for nonconsensual porn

Alabama schools struggle with juvenile sex offenders in classrooms

Sex Offender Sues Hospital That Won’t Let Him Visit Son, 9

Comment From episode 14


Compelled speech:
Definition: Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech
Seems then that compelled speech is the direct opposite of freedom of speech, or expression
Are there examples where compelled speech is justified (news media carrying candidate debates?)
Can the government force you to say the pledge or salute the flag or take your hat off during the anthem?
Is a subpoena in court compelled speech?
Is forcing cigarette companies to put labels on packaging compelled speech?


Episode 14 – Will Judges Save Us From Ourselves?

Episode 14

From The Spokesman: While his brother is in prison for molesting another child, he comes out with allegations that he too was molested by his brother many years earlier. Now that his brother is about to released after serving 25 years, he is saying that “I want that son of a bitch to never see the light of day again”.

From My Fox 8 in Greensboro NC. Here’s a clip of a police officer telling the public to be wary of stranger danger; that if you take your eyes off of your kid for a second, that they’ll disappear – and then they will have a situation

From The Intelligence: Pennsylvania State Police have started the process for removing as many as 5,000 ex-offenders from the Megan’s Law registry under a state supreme court mandate and a new law.

From The Brunswick News: In response to the recent school shooting, the author of this article seems to conflate being on fire, with stranger danger. He says that we should Regularly drill students on safety procedures for lockdown and ‘active shooter’ scenarios — Our youngest, a child with developmental delays, is well aware of “Stranger Danger,” as well as the particulars of “Stop, Drop and Roll.” Require monthly lockdown drills, tied to the receipt of state or federal grants to improve school security systems and staffing.

From the The College Fix:A student activist publicly called me a rapist with no evidence. Here’s the toll it took on my life. We’re back to the consequences of allegations.

From National Review: Let Them Wear Bracelets
Instead of unconditional release on bond or parole or probation, use GPS monitoring with a cell phone. An argument is made in the article that 4th amendment claims will be raised.

Describe how the travel ban went into effect, not by judges, but by someone filing some action to compel the judge to act
Judges are like umpires in baseball or referees in football or basketball. Their role is to see that the rules of court procedures are followed by both sides. Like the ump, they call ’em as they see ’em, according to the facts and law—without regard to which side is popular (no home field advantage), without regard to who is “favored,” without regard for what the spectators want, and without regard to whether the judge agrees with the law.

One of my personal problems in this area is that given a VERY guilty individual, given a VERY weak prosecutor, a guilty individual may go free – and vice versa. Given a very innocent individual, given an amazingly crafty prosecutor and innocent person could go to prison

But a judge isn’t necessarily interested in the capacity of the attorneys involved. Just the facts ma’am.

Today, many legislators often say: We don’t need to determine if a Bill is unconstitutional because after it becomes a law, eventually someone will challenge it in court and the courts will do their duty to judge the law.

Rational Basis: Rational relationship between purpose and law. No fundamental rights are involved, nor is there any discrimination based on race or gender.

Intermediate scrutiny: Substantial relationship between purpose and law. Certain cases involving discrimination based on gender and in some cases where the government compels a party to make disclosures.

Strict Scrutiny: Compelling purpose and is Narrowly tailored. Cases involving certain fundamental rights such as free speech or discrimination based on race.


Episode 13 – The Gentle Nature of Americans

Episode 13

On to the news items:

From The Washington Post: He was arrested for a sex act that’s no longer a crime. Years later, he remains convicted.

Green was 20 when he was arrested after having oral sex with a 16-year-old male in a Georgia hotel room. He was convicted of a sex crime — Was it consensual? it was. Was it because the partner was under the age of consent? In GA it is 16. He was convicted because the incident happened in 1997, when oral and anal sex between consenting adults was prohibited under Georgia’s sodomy law. The conviction required him to register as a sex offender, a stigmatizing label that he carried for years.


From The American Press: No housing options for sex offender.  A requirement of Mr. Ellender release is a housing plan that complies with guidelines set for sex offenders. Ellender has been in jail since 2015 and has no place to live if he is released.


From Yahoo Sports: Oregon State left-hander Luke Heimrich returned to the baseball diamond on Friday, helping to lead his ballclub to a 5-2 win against New Mexico. It was the first time Heimlich had pitched in a game since last June, when he removed himself from Oregon State’s College World Series bound team to avoid becoming a “distraction.” “Everybody, most of the time, deserves a second chance. I get that,” an anonymous athletic director told CBS Sports Dennis Dodd. “[Heimlich] went through his counseling, but it was a 6-year-old child … You’ve got little girls coming to your games. You can’t have that as an image with your program with Larry Nassar and all those things going on. Really? “You just have to say, ‘I’m sorry, young man, you can’t play for us.’”


From The Herald Republican: Sex offender registry levels stiff penalties. Noble County Superior 1 Court Judge Robert Kirsch believes the county trial courts, prosecutors and judges, should be given discretion on who should register and how long they must abide by the strict rules of the registry. Why have we taken the sentencing away from judges to determine the appropriate punishment? We fuss that judges legislate from the bench. Shouldn’t we also fuss that judges hands are tied in handing out sentences?

  • Note:Ted and Tricia Benhower were convicted of sexual conduct in the presence of their children in 2007 and continue to rack up felonies due to their failure to meet the requirements of the registry.


From The Progress: Wolf signs bill to protect victims of sexual abuse crimes.  Governor Tom Wolf on Wednesday signed House Bill 631 into law. The primary intent of which is to provide for greater public safety by ensuring convicted sexual offenders remain subject to registration requirements in the wake of recent court decisions impacting Pennsylvania’s implementation of the Sexual Offender Registration and Notification Act.


From The Independent: Changes Are Coming to California Sex Offender Registry. A New Approach Will Consider the Severity of Crimes. California will use a tier system. Deputy Public Defender Laura Arnold argued the state spends exorbitant resources every year monitoring sex offenders even though they only make up a tiny fraction of those who have committed a dangerous crime and are likely to reoffend


From NBC News: Her son was sentenced to 40 years at the age of 14. She says the prosecution waited until he was 18 before they arrested him. When he was 19, he’d be overwhelmed by guilt and depression. Prosecutors asked horrific questions about the age and sex that he prefers. He ultimately committed suicide.


From The Daily Beast: Missouri Gov. Eric Greitens Indicted for Taking Nude Photo of Woman Without Consent.  According to prosecutors, Greitens “knowingly photographed” the woman while she was nude and had a “reasonable expectation of privacy.” Greitens said “My confidence in our prosecutorial system is shaken, but not broken.”


Rush Limbaugh 250k deaths by knives

Heart disease: 633,842

  • Cancer: 595,930
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 155,041
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries): 146,571
  • Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 140,323
  • Alzheimer’s disease: 110,561
  • Diabetes: 79,535
  • Influenza and pneumonia: 57,062
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 49,959
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,193

Thank you Dave for becoming a Patron over at Patreon.com/registrymatters

Voicemail from Tom

Episode 12 – Reciprocity Laws

A conceal carry permit issued in one state should be honored in another

If you like the the podcast and want to support us, visit patreon.com / registrymatters to contribute. Even $1 would be great! You can also find the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, TuneIn or your podcast app.

If you’re finding us from NARSOL, welcome! There is an email notification on the registry matters site that will email you as soon as a new episode is posted.

An announcement about next weeks episode. Emily Horowitz will be joining us. Emily won the recent SoHo / Reason debate in NYC. We are incredibly excited that she’ll be joining us. Be sure to sign up for notifications, or subscribe in your podcast app to get notified as soon as the episode is released. It should come out on the 26th or 27th.

On to the news items:

From The Daily Star: Governor of NY seeks 1,000-foot boundary for sex offenders around schools. Gov Cuomo wants to increase restrictions of level 2 and 3 offenders to further secure neighborhoods across the state. An attorney opposed to the proposal said that it would leave some people homeless.

From Foxnews.com: Elected fire chief under attack for conviction. “That was 20 years ago,” Gilbert told the paper. “You know, the story you are telling kids is once you make mistake, you will be punished for the rest of your life. I’ve changed my life for the better. Every day I get up and try to do good.” Spartansburg Mayor who said she and the department have known about Gilbert’s status.

From WA Today.com (Western Australia): This from Down Under: Anyone found misusing the information, such as sharing it on a vigilante website, will face penalties including a maximum 10-year prison sentence. “You can’t go around running mob justice, but you can provide information that is common sense that can protect people,” Mr Guy said.
The registry in Australia is not on the Internet, open to the public. You can request records of an individual. You can’t just get the whole list about everybody.

From Katu.com: ACLU questions new OSU policy requiring students to disclose past felony convictions
The policy requires all continuing and future students to self-disclose any felony convictions and whether they’re a registered sex offender before they enroll.

A comment from Episode 11 – Residency Restrictions
Allie writes: I don’t believe looking at pictures should be considered a sex offense. I’d really like to know how anyone can sexually abuse a picture. I remember the movie Blue Lagoon. Brooke Shields was 14 at the time, They showed her naked in the movie, not to mention the little baby in the water totally naked. I guess if we watch that movie we’re all sex offenders. I was married to a 21 year old man when I was 16. My parents gave us their blessing. I guess my husband was a sex abuser.

If you’d like to talk to us, Larry how can THOSE PEOPLE reach us?
registrymatterscast@gmail.com, http://registrymatters.co or call 747-227-4477

On to the topic of reciprocity laws.
In early December, the US House of Representatives passed a bill that is one the National Rifle Association’s highest priorities which seems to go against the interests of the voters. Each state has their own concealed carry gun laws. It is on the owner of the gun to know the laws of the state they’re traveling to, to make sure that they’re in compliance with the local laws. A state such as Maryland which has restrictions on where a person can carry would be required to follow the laws of a state like Utah, which grants permits without any safety training, even to out of state residence.

Does this go against the 10th Amendment of States Rights?
Does Congress not pay attention to if a law is constitutional or not?
Is this an overreach of the Federal Government into the laws of the states?
Core principles of federalism dictate that Congress may not force state governments to absorb the financial burden of implementing regulatory decisions made by other states, but that’s just what would happen under the NRA’s proposal.

What does this have to do w/ a podcast about the registry? When you are on the registry, when you visit another state, you have a minefield of laws that you must comply with. How many days can you be in the state before you’d have to report into the local authorities?

I’ve learned that most problems aren’t rocket science, but when they are rocket science, you should ask a rocket scientist.’ Astronaut Scott Kelley

Episode 11 – Residency Restrictions

Episode 11

Do residency, work, presence restrictions do anything to help public safety?

I just want to say that if you’re finding us from NARSOL, welcome! There is an email notification on the registry matters site that will email you as soon as a new episode is posted. But even better, would be to subscribe to the podcast however you get your podcasts.

We’re now on TuneIn. Just ask say “Alexa, play Registry Matters on TuneIn” to listen to the program. This is so cool!

But first, we have some news items to cover

From the Post Gazette: Legislature passes bill addressing legal concerns about Pa. sex offender registration law. A bill meant to bring Pennsylvania’s unconstitutional sex offender registration rules into compliance with state and federal law unanimously passed the state Legislature on Tuesday and is expected to be signed by the governor soon. But critics of sex offender registration laws believe that what the Legislature has done will further complicate the issue, likely forcing future court challenges.

From the Seattle Times: This is a change in law that criminalizes teen sexting. Teenagers should not be labeled as sex offenders simply for texting intimate pictures of themselves to someone else. But that is exactly what can happen right now in Washington state. The state’s child pornography laws make no distinction between teens who send pictures of their own bodies and adults who take explicit images of children to exploit them.

From The Baxter Bulletin: ‘Pedosexual Movement’ must be stopped in its tracks. Recently, through various social media outlets, I have come across a few articles concerning the ‘pedosexual movement,’ and their lobbying for the legalization and normalization of pedophilia. If you don’t know what that word means, look it up. If you have a minute, and choose to do your own research, you will find that the pedosexual movement is indeed a real thing, with its own flag, and its own agenda. They are coming, and they are bringing an army of lobbyists and lawyers with them. So far they have been really good at keeping their efforts relatively quiet.

From The LA Times: California must consider earlier parole for sex offenders, judge rules. California must consider earlier parole for potentially thousands of sex offenders, even those convicted of pimping children, a state judge said Friday. The judge preliminarily ordered prison officials to rewrite part of the regulations but Gov. Jerry Brown promised voters all sex offenders would be excluded. That goes too far, the judge said in rejecting Deputy Atty. Gen. Maria Chan’s argument that the ballot measure gave state officials broad discretion to exclude any class of offenders whose release might harm public safety. “If the voters had intended to exclude all registered sex offenders from early parole consideration under Proposition 57, they presumably would have said so”.

From Reason.com: 22-Year-Old Woman Facing Sexual Assault Charges for Relationship with 18-Year-Old Male Student. The teacher, who was 21 at the time, was charged with three counts of second-degree sexual assault, even though she was engaged in a consensual relationship with her purported victim. In fact, the 18-year-old’s parents said their son and the teacher are in love, and asked the prosecutor to drop the charges, according to WTIC TV.

We had a couple comments from Episode 10, Is it better to do something than nothing

Jack commented at registrymatters.co. He says:
The current whipping boy is child pornography. Most charged with this offense never made contact nor tried to make contact with a child (under 18 years of age). These are voyeurs looking at online porn sites (23 put up and stocked by our FBI) and had no intention of ever harming a child. They were compelled by their addiction to seek this porn. Given they have to register as SO’s the rest of their lives, the death penalty may be more humane. A new crop of SO’s is emerging, teens who are sexting pictures. This is sure to feed a lot of lawyers and prisons but an absolute death knell for the lives of the offenders. The registry must be reclassified for violent offenders or completely abolished. This is double indemnity for a crime and I would think, unconstitutional.

Linda writes in response to Jack’s comment: I totally agree with your comment . I agree there should be reclassification of registrants. People who view porn have different minds than those of violent offenders. No harm to anyone is intended. I know a guy who stumbled on child porn while viewing adult porn and he now is branded for life ! Have known him all his life and would never hurt a fly. They throw everyone into one pot and call it quits – so unfair to many!

And SW, possibly from the Northern Midwest, says “Most of us can’t vote” https://www.brennancenter.org/criminal-disenfranchisement-laws-across-united-states

Listener Chanta from Alaska left a voicemail message:

We are going to be talking about the use of and the efficacy of residency and work and presence restrictions of registrants.

First one was in AL in 1996

About 14 states had something by 2006

While this controversial residency law has raised questions of fairness and constitutionality, it is currently legal and valid. Some critics argue that it simply “plays to the fears of the public…and does little to actually curb sexual assaults.”

Who has the most restrictive policies? AL?

There are states that have no restrictions

Have any states filed challenges to reverse having restrictions?

What were the grounds, what was the nexus of the challenges?

The PEW Charitable Trusts says 27 states have restrictions – this is as of 2016

Psychologists who have treated sex offenders, such as Gerry Blasingame, chair of the California Coalition on Sexual Offending, say the impetus behind the laws — the belief that offenders who have been released will continue to seek out child victims who they do not know — is more perception than reality. Most perpetrators abuse children they know; just one in 10 perpetrators of child sex abuse is a stranger to the victim.

A U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics study in 2003, the most recent available, found that 5.3 percent of inmates released from prison after being convicted of a sex offense are arrested for another sexual offense within three years. (Although researchers generally acknowledge that the recidivism rate may be low because these crimes are underreported.)

But you Larry, don’t believe that statistics even matter. It’s about if this is constitutional. We can’t get past that. We can use stats to back up the claim. But it is unconstitutional from the start.

And before we go, I want to give a shout out to LifeTimes Magazine at lifetimesmagazine.org. It is a brand new publication about being on the registry, but takes a positive view and focuses on the successes.

Episode 10 – Is It Better To Do Something versus Nothing?

Episode 10

Is it better to do something versus nothing? Can you do more harm than good by a poorly thought out action than by sitting on the sidelines. That is the topic we’ll be covering tonight

A quick announcement is that we’re now on Patreon. patreon.com/registrymatters. If you want to help support the program, even donating $1 per month would be amazing. I don’t want to push on this as we’re doing this as a public service, but there are server and hosting costs not to mention our time. And if you happen to be listening to the show via the website, know that you can also download the podcast in your podcast app, or iTunes, Google play, and Stitcher.

From the Des Moines Register: Man who pleaded guilty to lascivious acts with child appears to win $100K lottery prize


From the Virginian Pilot: Lawmakers are unfair in targeting sex offenders. A bill in the senate will require registrants to self-disclose if they go to an evacuation center. It will be a felony if they don’t. However, no notification will be sent to the individuals affected by this change. A similar bill senators closely scrutinized the bill because it didn’t include a notification element for those affected. Mary Davye Devoy said “Is this inconsistency? Is it cherry-picking? Is it hypocrisy? Whatever you want to call it, it’s 100 percent intentional and dishonorable.”

From the New York Post: Oklahoma considers chemical castration for sex offenders. A Republican lawmaker is pushing to add Oklahoma to the list of states in which so-called chemical castration is an option for certain sex offenders, albeit an option that rarely gets used. If approved, Oklahoma would join at least seven other states that have laws allowing courts to order chemical treatments that reduce male testosterone for certain sex offenders, although experts say the punishment is rarely carried out and one described it as a “half fantasy” version of criminal justice. “When I knocked on that guy’s door when I was campaigning, he said: ‘I’ll vote for you if you’ll run this bill,’” West said.

From SOSEN.org: Four years after being called out on poor public policy, Florida is STILL putting children at risk. “Why are the  many children and families of former offenders being placed in danger from missed opportunities of effective legislation?” “Are the children of citizens on the sex offender registry less valuable to lawmakers?” Nearly four full years later, we are still awaiting a satisfactory answer. As of May 24, 2017, there were 69,917 people listed on the Florida state sex offender registry and the number grows daily. Legislators have neglected to accept the fact that registered citizens have families and children who are also affected by these restrictive laws and become victims of vigilante crimes, harassment, community ostracism and detrimental restrictions placed on them.

From Handbasket notes @ blogspot.com: Iowa legislator wants to move the goalposts. This bill addresses the problem of sex offenders that “time out” of the registry after a set number of years (usually 10 years) and then move to a new area of the state or move into Iowa from another state. If a sex offender has timed out, law enforcement has no way of knowing this person is in their community. This bill establishes a new requirement for any person that has ever had to register as a sex offender in Iowa or any other jurisdiction to register with the county sheriff when they move into or around the state. This classification of sex offenders would not be required to re-register quarterly or annually like other classes of sex offenders. Previous Iowa Supreme Court cases (such as Iowa vs. Pickens, 1997) have determined that such registry requirements are constitutional because they do not constitute ex post facto punishment, they are merely regulation. This requirement will give law enforcement greater insight into who is living in our communities. This bill passed subcommittee on Thursday of this week and now goes to the full committee.

From the Clarion Ledge: Sexting bills provide loophole to keep minors from registering as sex offenders. Rep. Nick Bain, D-Corinth, author of House Bill 1467, said it would keep allow a minor offender from having to register for the rest of his or her life as a sex offender.  Current law makes the crime a felony, requiring registering as a sex offender.

From hstoday.us: OPINION: Legislation Aiming to Stop Sex Trafficking Would Hurt Investigations. The U.S. Senate is actively preparing for a vote on the Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act (SESTA). Advocates and the media portray the legislation as an important step toward preventing sex trafficking, but there is absolutely no empirical evidence to support this notion. In fact, qualitative data and criminological theory suggest that SESTA will result in the displacement and dispersion of commercial sex advertisements, which would inhibit law enforcement efforts to rescue victims and arrest sex traffickers.

From The Crime Report: How ‘Pseudoscience’ Turns Sex Offenders into Permanent Outlaws.  A New York Appeals court has rejected the notion that risk prediction under the state’s Sex Offender Registration Act (SORA) should have a scientific basis. According to the July 2017 decision in People v. Curry, courts must not only adhere to a risk assessment instrument (RAI) that has been repeatedly exposed as pseudo-scientific humbug, they may not even consider a scientifically validated instrument such as the Static-99. This looks an awful lot like advance punishment for a future crime, like the science fiction film “Minority Report.” It also looks like a second punishment for a past offense—a practice the Constitution frowns on in the Double Jeopardy Clause. Not at all, say the courts. SORA isn’t punishment, but merely a regulatory measure to protect public safety. As one legislator put it, it’s like affixing warning labels to toxic substances.

We had a couple comments from Episode 9, Who represents the victim

John says:

Just leave the country, sex offenders have no rights, murderers have more rights!

You’d be surprised how your life is much better and you’re back to leaving a normal life when you leave this country and the police state you live in.

Tammie says:

I want to ask Why can’t the Sex Offender Registry have reclassification for offenders with a certain criteria of offenses? There are thousands of people on a Violent Sex Offender Registry where no violence ever took place even some where no child was involved with the offender at all. How can a person be classified as a Violent Offender when there was no violent act and no child was touched by the offender? How did this happen? What kinda system puts this hardship on a person let alone his or her family. Lifetime restrictions!!! Somewhere the system is broken and failed! Reform is needed!!!!

Timothy says:

I listen but you two men miss the point! This whole deal is not about the sex offender or public safety. IT IS ABOUT THE DATABASE! In particular, it came about when the powers that be realized the power AND USES of the machine to effect POLITICAL SECURITY. Consider, the deep state’s uses of databases. (See EFF.Org) While foreign surveillance is completely permissible, domestic electronic surveillance WAS a no-no. The Wetterling Act changed that. Think about it gentlemen, if a state may indenture an individual to a machine {SOR DATABASE} then the government may indeed monitor the people with it too! With respect to individual liberty the most severe punishment is incarceration, registration as it currently exists, is a close second, because telling a man he may go where he wants but he may not proves the same result.


On to the topic. We are discussing if there is some level of irreparable harm that can be done by doing something, versus waiting. An example of this is filing a challenge prematurely. Perhaps before there is sufficient evidence to support the challenge. Or while other challenges that would support your challenge.

Episode 9 – Who represents the victims?

Episode 9

Who represents the victims? NARSOL, SOSEN, WAR and many other organizations are fighting for those of us on the registry.  Why are we fighting for the rights of those that have committed crimes?

From The Press Herald: Sparked by reports to Augusta police, a proposal to bar sex offenders from photographing children faces an uphill climb, but it raises issues worth discussing. The effectiveness of public sex offender registries, for instance, is highly questionable, with studies showing little impact on sex crimes or recidivism. https://www.pressherald.com/2018/01/26/our-view-legislation-should-start-dialogue-on-stopping-predation/

  • Should there be laws against photographing minors that are in public places?
  • How would you police this in the first place?

From The Review Journal: Las Vegas man says he killed over dislike of sex offenders, report says A Las Vegas man told his neighbor he killed two homeless people behind a central-valley swap meet because one of them was a sex offender, court documents show. “The neighbor explained he had been sexually assaulted as a child and took offense to sex offenders,” 32-year-old Michael Thompson’s arrest report said. https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/homicides/las-vegas-man-says-he-killed-over-dislike-of-sex-offenders-report-says/

  • This person was convicted in 1984. Can a person ever live beyond their past? Granted, people make mistakes. Some larger than other mistakes. People are punished for their mistakes. But are you punished by these decisions forever?
  • Shouldn’t we have a justice system that allows for vigilante justice?

From The Star Tribute: Minnesota sex offenders challenge residency restrictions. Criminal justice researchers have found that geographic-based residency restrictions are largely ineffective at preventing sex crimes, in part because offenders tend to victimize people they know rather than pursue strangers living in close proximity to them. http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-sex-offenders-challenge-a-city-s-ban/470718623/

  • What is the argument for residency restrictions if the majority of crimes are committed by people that know the victim? Stranger danger is largely a myth, a statistical outlier.

From The Tallahassee Democrat: Felons’ rights proposal goes on November ballot The “Voting Restoration Amendment,” which was approved Tuesday to appear on the ballot as Amendment 4, would automatically restore voting rights to felons who have served their sentences, completed parole or probation and paid restitution. Murderers and sex offenders would be excluded. http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/23/felons-rights-proposal-goes-november-ballot/1058885001/

  • Why single out murder and SOs?

From MassLive.com: Westfield officials hesitant to repeal sex offender ordinance despite high court ruling “Why is everyone so concerned with the assailant’s rights?” he asked. “We need to find another outlet so these (level) twos and threes can’t live in certain areas. … When they do something like that, they throw their life away.” http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/01/resident_speaks_out_against_re.html

  • Does a person throw their life away by committing a crime?

From The Atlantic: Where Nassar’s Judge Went Wrong: By endorsing vengeance from the bench, the judge sentencing the disgraced Olympic doctor crossed an important line.


Here is a comment from a listener. He or she wished to remain anonymous, but as best as I can tell this person is from Illinois:

Hello Andy and Larry, I want to thank the both of you for these podcasts. I have listened to each one. Some a few times. I hope you’re getting good listener numbers. It’s ok to get off topic. Haha. I would buy you guys lunch just to hear you two go back and forth. Sorry for no return email. My states internet usage laws are scary

Charles commented about episode 8: I can relate to this problem because I was on probation from Florida serving it in Maryland. I was accused of technical violations. Maryland wanted to send me back to Florida. I had heard of this requirement in the interstate compact and asked my attorney. He had never heard of a Probable Cause hearing and told me to waive extradition. I finally did get my hearing but I had to hire a different attorney who reached out to NARSOL for help. Thankfully we did get the hearing after I pressed the matter.

Listener question. Chris left voice mail at 747-227-4477:

Our topic tonight is about protecting the victims. You have people commit heinous offenses. The victim may have to go through psychological treatment for years, or decades. They might not even be alive. Who is out there protecting them? And why are we doing advocacy work for people who have done wrong?


Probable Cause Hearing Before Retaking

Episode 8



You’ve transferred your supervision to a new state. And in the new state you commit a supervision violation. An example might be a curfew violation. Another example might be something like being around a minor beyond accidental


Reflections from 2017:

Packingham North Carolina Supreme Court and ban on social media

Michigan 6th circuit Doe vs Snyder

Pennsylvania Muniz ex post facto case


Things to watch in 2018:

Arizona – 9th Circuit – burden shifting – affirmative defense – easier to get convictions

International Megan’s Law

Continuous exam of 6th circuit

Illinois park restrictions case


Civil Commitment


Breaking any law – what constitutes a law, misdemeanors, traffic violations

Extradition is a fugitive from justice???

What is the standard that needs to be met to be sent home: Probable Cause

Reasonable Suspicion, Probable Cause, Preponderance Of Evidence, Clear And Convincing, Reasonable Doubt

Probable cause simply means that you ‘probably did it’.


Punishment Law and Legal Definition

Punishment is the infliction of some kind of pain or loss upon a person for a misdeed. In criminal law, punishment is allowed due to the wrongful intent involved in the crime. A punishment such as incarceration seeks to give any victim involved retribution against the offender, deter the criminal from future criminal acts, and hopefully rehabilitate the offender. This is distinguished from civil law, which seeks to compensate the injured party rather than punish the wrongdoer.

Justifications for punishment typically take five forms: (1) retributive; (2) deterrence; (3) preventive; (4) rehabilitative; and (5) restitutionary. There are limitations on the punishment that may be imposed. The U.S. Constitution’s Eighth Amendment states: ‘Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.’ A number of state constitutions also contain the same, or similar, provisions.

cruel and unusual punishment definition
Punishment prohibited by the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution. Cruel and unusual punishment includes torture, deliberately degrading punishment, or punishment that is too severe for the crime committed. This concept helps guarantee due process even to convicted criminals. Many people have argued that capital punishment should be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

The average length of time served by federal inmates more than doubled from 1988 to 2012, rising from 17.9 to 37.5 months.1 Across all six major categories of federal crime—violent, property, drug, public order, weapon, and immigration offenses—imprisonment periods increased significantly. For drug offenders, who make up roughly half of the federal prison population, time served leapt from less than two years to nearly five.

Mandatory minimum sentencing laws, the elimination of parole, and other policy choices helped drive this growth, which cost taxpayers an estimated $2.7 billion in 2012 alone.Despite these expenditures, research shows that longer prison terms have had little or no effect as a crime prevention strategy—a finding supported by data showing that policymakers have safely reduced sentences for thousands of federal offenders in recent years.4

Who determines the sentence? Judges? Legislators? Jury?

Concurrent versus consecutive sentences

Should we punish an eye for an eye?

How do you have equitable punishment when the convicted individual has varying degrees of means at their disposal to mitigate the punishment. Bond, commissary, etc.?

Jerry Sandusky was sentenced to 60 years. He is eligible for parole after 30 years being convicted of 45 of 48 counts against him

Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison for a massive $36B ponzi scheme. Only repaying $2.6B to customers

Jared Fogle was sentenced to 15 years in prison, plus $175,000 in fines, forfeit $225,000 in assets in addition to $1.4M in restitution.


Length of Sentences

Larry and Andy discuss various strategies that prosecutors use in determining sentences, is there a difference between Federal prosecution and state level prosecution prosecutors try to throw the book at you or are they empathetic?
Law and order politicians
Do states have different policies for their sentences?
What determines the policies?
Is there a difference between jurisdictions in a single state?
Is prison rehabilitation or punishment?
Are sentence lengths based on evidence or feelings?