Andy  0:00  
Recording live from studios, east and west, transmitting across the internet. This is Episode 60 of registry matters. Well, Larry, here we are at the end of January or not the end, the middle and the second half of January, however you want to put it and it's a Saturday night. It's 7:18pm Eastern time. How are you?

Larry  0:21  
I'm doing fantastic. We would be recording at the proper time except for technical glitches which we hope do not recur

Andy  0:28  
if they do, I'm throwing all of your equipment off of that gorge bridge.

Larry  0:34  
You do that you you come out here and you go to the courts bridge.

Andy  0:37  
I'm going to do it because yeah, for you to sound like Darth Vader and meet us on like Darth Vader. It was not not fun.

Larry  0:45  
It was your question. I am hearing a popping in the background. But hopefully that'll that will be people will hear that way when we do the playback. But I can hear a little bit of popping

Andy  0:56  
that could be me playing with a piece of chapstick.

Larry  0:58  
It only happens when you're speaking.

Andy  1:01  
Well, yeah, I fidget with my hands. I usually have like something that I try to play with. Like, I click a pen but I do it underneath the desk. And I try to keep it as

Larry  1:08  
quiet as possible. This is this is an electronic pop. Trust me I've done okay. hundreds thousands of phone calls in my repertoire. And I and I i can i can distinguish that sound

Andy  1:20  
do tell me how do you have hundreds of thousands of phone calls in your repertoire?

Larry  1:24  
Well, do tell I've been in the marketing business for a very long time

Andy  1:29  
marketing Oh, that's fascinating. I didn't realize that she'd been in marketing

Larry  1:34  
yes I have

Unknown  1:37  
Do you want to elaborate on that ever so slightly.

Larry  1:40  
I think most people hate telemarketers and I think we should move on.

Andy  1:46  
I have a question regarding I guess, I guess we have an article coming up. So we'll just dive right in. I was gonna ask a question about the funding of the courts and so forth, and how that's going to be impacted. But we have some articles from the New York Times that will cover that at the end. So we'll just dive right on it. And so with that, without further ado, we're going to welcome a new patron David, I think I may have missed him. He's been on the roster for a couple weeks now, but so very much thank you. And you're coming in at the hustle level with a little extra tossed in. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. It's really appreciate it. And it's very humbling as we can't continually say that for people to support the podcast. It's just really appreciate it. It's awesome.

Larry  2:26  
I can't imagine why they would pay to listen to me. And you, especially you,

Andy  2:31  
here's the thing. I actually everyone that signs up, I actually pay them just to pad your ego a little bit. So it looks like we're actually getting some funding, but I'm actually supporting the whole thing.

Well,

Larry  2:43  
well, that's especially humbling them.

Andy  2:47  
Alright, so first up, we have a voicemail from will. And so we'll jump right into that.

Unknown  2:53  
This is will from Tennessee again. And I recently listened to REM 59 three Supreme Court denials. And Larry, when discussing why the court is so hesitant to rule against anything registry related. He mentioned that justice roberts had been I think the Alaska attorney or a state attorney and we all know that in the lower courts. When a judge has personal knowledge of a case he has to recuse himself because it's a conflict of interest. At what point does it become a conflict of interest for Supreme Court Justice when they have to hear cases that involves laws that they either help that they were either the architect for help them the wording or were a state's attorney that thought to uphold the law at what point do histories with legislation become conflicts of interest for US Supreme Court Justice

Andy  4:02  
um. I think there might be some yeah I think he has some details wrong though doesn't he?

Larry  4:08  
Well he's on the right path right conflict conflict of interest and I think we could probably have an expert Come on I could do this far more justice to what I'll be able to do but I can tell you that merely having knowledge of a case is not enough for for for recusal if that was the case they be practically every judge will be recusing from everything because I can't think of a lot of issues that judges don't have knowledge it becomes a little bit more cloudy and Mercury when they have a personal relationship with one of the parties that are professional relationship it he's he's on the right path of justice Elena Kagan worked for the Department of Justice before she was named to the court and she recuse herself from anything that the Department of Justice was was involved in which which caused her to sit out several decisions after give us on the court

there's there's example after example judges get named to the bench that are prosecutors in my state they that happens quite calm but I'm sure it doesn't other sites like if they become judges and they've they've been attorneys in some capacity or prosecutor defense attorney if they've been a prosecutor oftentimes they will recuse themselves from hearing anything that their their former office was involved in for example, if a if a judge here gets on the bench and he or she was formatted with the District Attorney's Office prosecuting well that's that's going to create a problem they get on the critical bench rather than civil beds because practically everything coming to the criminal court is as is going to be prosecuted by the district attorney's office so they've they've generally taken a more narrow view that they recuse themselves when it's when it's stuff that they were that their particular unit was involved if they were to the crimes against children's unit then they would recuse themselves from from that so so wills on the right path that there is I think the model rules of Professional Conduct go so far so suggest recusal when there's that appearance of a conflict and and but we have to keep in mind for the Supreme Court to to decide to review a case that only takes four justices to grant cert of nine and they can grant they can vote to grants or for different reasons that they could be putting to overturn the law they are they wanting to affirm the law

so the fact that Justice Roberts was directly involved in Smith versus doe I don't think that we could say that that's the reason in of itself that it can't muster the four votes right the other cases that are coming What was the point I was making is that are

a lot of our conservative colleagues out there supporters and shouldn't call in politics but a lot of our conservative supporters believe that the Supreme Court's just chomping at the bit to reexamine registration I'm merely a whole pond that based on the fact that they're turning everything down for certain that does not appear to be borne out by the evidence and it says Justice Roberts was Alaskans attorney at the time that for him to want to do his previous work he's gonna have to really recognize that that he got it wrong or he could he could he could sidestep that sounds right at the time. But the law as it has, it has evolved. It's the law or the law that I fought for, and what I represent the state of Alaska. So at this point, I could come to a different conclusion. I mean, he could do that. But I just don't think that he goes to bed at night thinking, well, how can we get the registry? how can how can we take this registry? I just don't think a lot of the justices are thinking those terms up. That was my point.

Andy  7:41  
Yeah, I'm with you on that. Um, I've heard that a bunch that I'm trying to remember where I heard it even this week, that someone had said that the Supreme Court is just waiting for the opportunity to shut this thing down. And I don't really I don't, I don't feel that it is that way, because you would see changes being done at two different levels before it gets up there to the top dogs. I mean, you would see things happening at the state level, even, you know, we constantly cover articles where they're increasing the strictness of living restrictions and so forth. So I don't I don't feel that it's going in that direction at all.

Larry  8:13  
Well, I think that they they true but if there's even more telling it when the state of Michigan asked the Supreme Court to review those verses Snyder, if they were chomping at the bit to make a national proclamation about registration, they could have taken that case and what would have been binding in the Sixth Circuit only would have become biting him to hold our country if they were chomping at the bit when the Pennsylvania case of noodles when that when that when that whatever that district attorney was that whatever county it was in Pennsylvania file a petition for search, if they had been chomping at the bit they could have taken that case they didn't right, they will get other opportunities. That was the case the tensor get with, with what has the 10 second has yet to rule yet, but if they affirm judge, that's the Maillard versus rank in case if they affirm judge mate I would very much anticipate Colorado would appeal that's what the attorney but it was on the case that you see expected they can chomp at the bit take that case so zombie we I just don't see the I'm chomping at the bit for I mean, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I just I just don't see that jumping occurring.

Andy  9:29  
Let me just play parcel devil's advocate, do you think that they are looking at the cases that are being presented and they go, it's not strong enough, we want to wait till something more concrete hits the desk to to see if they're going to rule on it, instead of trying to do something that might be half as

Larry  9:45  
well they could. But Michigan had a pretty strong case the main not Michigan but the people people the people are our side in Michigan, they had a very onerous registry of Michigan in terms of all the restrictions that been heaped on through the years. The only thing that I don't think Michigan to do it, let's do it was charging fees but they had the prohibitions on people where they can live in all these proximity restriction. So they had juiced up the requirements of frequency of reporting and the length of registration and so it was pretty onerous I'd be I suppose I could wait for the Alabama case that's been bobbing around the 11th circuit for so long I'm wondering if the 11th circuit is ever going to rule but that's the book wire case but they could that other than that I can't think of anything that would be much more honestly what what they could have reviewed in the Michigan case

Andy  10:34  
is there anything that like lets them timeout I mean what is what is the process if if they do they have to make a positive affirmation or denial of hearing a thing or deciding on a thing

Larry  10:46  
well they do they they didn't have the petition for certain you know you're going to outline or say your petition for service been denied

Andy  10:53  
okay and and everything will have a positive or negative confirmation

Unknown  10:56  
correct you'll you'll either get granted certain you'll be denied

Unknown  11:00  
okay there's no Limbo is what you mean you just described that one in Alabama

Larry  11:05  
that's at the 11th circuit it's not it's Supreme Court now I don't know if that thing timing out that that circuit court but that's okay that's very important disposes of its cases one way or the other that's

Andy  11:15  
so but the the the circuit courts don't necessarily do that

Larry  11:19  
I'm not aware of anything that requires them to render it

Andy  11:23  
interesting

maybe you'll just go away will ignore you long enough

Larry  11:28  
Well, that's true I wait long enough McGuire might die

they could take the if I were Alabama would say the stone logistician will controversy that that the God that would be granted relief is dead

Unknown  11:43  
the cases customer of ours, man

Larry  11:45  
Yeah, it's not. Not me. But move.

Andy  11:48  
Yes. Yes. And which is the same as when you see in all the mob movies where they try and go kill the some witness somewhere. And if the witness has gone and the case faults, right.

Larry  11:57  
It's sometimes the way Get be very critical to the case.

Andy  12:02  
Yeah, that's so yeah, I mean, I guess in this case, I mean, if you if you're the one with the standard and you're no longer standing, then I guess it all goes away.

Larry  12:10  
Well, the issue they would argue if I worked on the other side would argue that there are exceptions to the Buddhist doctrine, and that's what an issue that's capable of rape, repeated repetition and repetition, what would be best resolved by getting a decision here because this matter is going to keep coming up again. And again, I would argue that I'm not saying that they were they would buy but there are exceptions to the Buddhist doctor. But as a general rule with the with the parties are no longer willing or able to participate. That case becomes boot that'd be tough to defend. It dies, what's the point? prosecuting them if you're a criminal prosecution? What, what are you going to do once you get a conviction?

Sure. So so you have to tell them I'm sorry, you're we don't need you anymore. The person's dead.

Andy  12:55  
Sure, sure.

All right, then, well, patron, Jeff, he one of our newest patrons, and he says, just finished listening to episode number 59. I got it a day early because I'm a patriot now. Whoo hoo. I really enjoyed the episode like normal. But I did have a question. You guys were talking about how circuits sometimes become split? And that forces the Supreme Court to get involved? At least that's what I understood. I don't always understand what you guys are talking about. I'll be honest here. There's lots of legal jargon, I don't understand. But one of the circuits that you guys mentioned was split is the Sixth Circuit, which is the circuit that I live in. Could you elaborate in the future in a future episode, what it means if circuits are split, and what it specifically means regarding the Sixth Circuit being split. I know Larry's very, very smart, but if he can try it, dumb it down for someone like me, so I can understand Take care. Thank you, Jeff.

Larry  13:48  
Larry, that's that's a really good question, Jeff. The Sixth Circuit is when I say split, it's not split amongst itself. It has split from itself circuits and finding that that that registration can evolve to the point that it becomes punitive. And it's no longer a civil regulatory scheme to my knowledge other than judge mate who is not a circuit. He's a district judge, to my knowledge now, whether circuit has concluded that at the federal level, so we now we already have a split because of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeal. We have one circuit court the six saying that it is punitive, and we've got 10 others plus the DC Circuit saying that it is not punitive. So we already have a circuit split. This split among the circuits does not guarantee that the supreme court's going to jump in because if it did, they would have granted the state of Michigan's cert petition to hear that case. It does, according to what the Supreme Court tells us, they tell us a little bit about how this like their cases, they don't tell us everything because honestly, I believe they take things and entertain them. I mean, they're there they their typical their career and they want to decide important issues. They're not they have said that that that justice is not one of the considerations that they that that an injustice and someone is suffering from injustice is not enough to get them involved. So if you think just because you've got an injustice, the Supreme Court's got to hear it, they have proclaimed a long time ago but that's not what what they want to decide important matters to help the lower courts understand how to decide cases they could have jumped in on the on the split, they didn't, they may be waiting for more circuits to split. If you take the best if you look at the most positive light Well, they wanted to see how this case all develops below. And when they get ready to opine about what we're registration becomes punitive. They may be wanting more case law below or building of of the factual basis of below of how the different circuits have have decided the cases that's my best way I can put on it. But the circuit split means simply that that that among the 11 circuits that different opinions on essentially the same question presented and courts can come with different opinions. Law law is not black and white. I mean, we have the Andy doctrine where we should feed everything into a computer and we get an answer, but you can look at the same statute and you come come up with a different interpretation of what it means and always refer to justice Rick late Justice Scalia is example this is his not mine. He said on I believe it was made the press that he appeared on some number of years ago. He said, Take a statute it says that the prevailing party shall recover attorneys fees he's is what does that mean? He says, Well, I'm a text list, I believe it means exactly what it says they the the attorneys will be paid. But he said those people that are that that subscribe to purpose of Islam, and that was the world he used, not me. He said, the people who believe in purpose of Islam, they would look at the intent of the law, which is to make the prevailing party whole, which you will not only have attorneys fees, but you would have cost related to getting to the finish line which could be horrendous in this modern age we live in where we have experts for everything. And if you have a tremendous amount of out of pocket expenses, Justice Scalia said the lawmakers who put the statutory schemes together they're smart they know how to provide in their and their text. If they want you to recover those out of pocket costs. They can say that and for him to the side that that's what they meant that would be overstepping his authority so we can we can have exactly the same words on a page and have different interpretations and there's nothing sinister about them Are you a texture list or your purpose of this

Unknown  17:52  
it's a funny word

Larry  17:55  
people most of our people would think of themselves as texture list Hill you don't like the safe what what what what I struggle with all this podcast as I try to get people to think through because they truly believe that our textures and then when I say well, okay, you got in Nebraska. That case where they for the federal court came up with the purpose of the Nebraska law, which was to shield juveniles, the state Supreme Court said nope, nope. Nope. They didn't say that. They said anyone who really relocates to Nebraska who is required to register another state you are a person right yeah. Hard to register in Colorado right? You both did a rascal right well, they that fits within the text don't ask us to carve out an exemption for you because the legislators didn't do it well I believe with all my good friends out there who subscribed to texture was a man who they don't want all that legislating from the bench and all that liberal do get interpretation they should be applauding that ruling that's exactly what a textual us what's up

they would she wanted for they made it quite like that architectural list except for

Andy  19:07  
right, except for when it doesn't fit what I'm already what I'm interpreting as

Larry  19:12  
what I would like to have interpreted as that that's, that's what they beat it. And, and and what what happens is these things are difficult to get to the legislative process. And you sometimes need activists courts to do things that the that the legislative process can never be persuaded to do, because the public opinion but it's the right thing to do, which that kind of goes against people who say, Well, I don't know legislating from the bench. Well, sometimes that's how we get to where we're going. But the finish line is we have a little bit of legislate from the bench but in this case

we're talking about I think with this with the with the registry I don't think we're going to get a lot of legislating from the bench I think we're going to have to prove that it's punitive and we're going to have to prove it with the clearest using the standard the Supreme Court said said that in Broderick vs o clock decades ago the bird is called us to show by the clearest to prove that the legislative enactment is is deficient of the Constitution and it's on us to show that I don't think they're gonna do a lot of legislate from the bench. I really don't.

Andy  20:14  
Well, all right, then are you ready to move on

Larry  20:17  
there goes our ratings that

Andy  20:20  
I know every week we seem to be trying to drive our numbers down to zero and honestly it's not really working they are going the other direction so I tried harder

Larry  20:29  
but here's what here's what they will tell tell me after that comment. They'll say Larry with your defeatist attitude No wonder we can't make any progress you know with if you just go into thing with such a negative outlook No wonder where we are? That's that's the comment is made is if you just with have a defeatist attitude, well, I'm not having I'm trying to call it the way it appears to me with information I have I don't have any information that suggests that the court is chomping at the bit if it is that's got that information, please. It was on the podcast but i don't i don't see it.

Andy  21:03  
I'm with you. Well, alright, so this one comes from pix 11 P. ix. One one calm ban on gay conversion therapy poised for passage in New York. I have a question for you. Larry, do you think that you can convert a straight person to be gay

Larry  21:19  
I've not heard any evidence of that i've i've I mean, I've there's actually that fear though when the that's part of what's called some of the phobia about about gays, the real fundamental fundamentalist

Christians will tell you that, well, they can't produce and reproduce on their own. So the only way they can get more of them is that they have to convert our young so we have to be protected and taking care of our young and make sure they don't convert them. So even though I don't believe you can convert people, I believe that there's the fear of that out there.

Andy  21:58  
But But if you can't convert straight to gay, then why would you be able to convert gate a straight

Larry  22:03  
well, but I say they are people who believe that that I know to believe that that converts I mean, there is a grain of logic in it. If you can't reproduce, then if you assume that they do that it's a data set chosen life which is a part of their philosophical outlook. They believe that God made man and woman Adam and Eve and God made them naturally them to be attracted to one another, there's opposite. So they believe that I'm not condemning their beliefs, and they believe that with all their heart, and they believe that for someone to not have that attraction, they believe that there must be something causing that that's either wrong with them, or they've been converted. And and so therefore, there's a fear that that there's people being converted, I don't buy into that fear. I don't believe that anyone on they're aware of anyone who's been converted to gate off where people who've come out and who suppress their sexuality for a long time, but they felt comfortable in coming out. But I'm not aware of anyone who has come out who says, Well, actually, I changed my mind. I've tried it both ways. I like this better.

Andy  23:11  
I recently I recently heard an interview a fairly long extensive interview with one of the people that was like massively driving that bus of gay conversion therapy and indoctrinating all kinds of people into this lifestyle, that you could convert people running classes. And so many of those people end up committing suicide it is a really tragic thing that they just run around. And they shame you. And I just, I just feel I'm sure that there are gay people that do it for other reasons than they are, quote unquote, wired that way. But if you're just wired that way, that there's not something necessarily wrong and I can't imagine why society would want you to live alone why they would want you to be shunned. It is really highly detrimental to the psychology of someone and I'm, I'm not gay, I'm perfectly happy, like with the female form. I think that's an amazing thing. But why? Why do I care what you do with your junk that I need to worry about converting you to where you put your junk?

Larry  24:11  
Well, I don't know why you can't understand that, Andy,

Andy  24:15  
I find it really offensive because there's literally no science behind it. I'm seriously about some science stuff. And if anybody can find me any evidence that says this stuff works, and it has to be like peer reviewed and actually, like, credible and not from some very, very biased source, I would be interested to hear it, but I have heard of nothing even remotely close, I'll put it in the same category as polygraphs that this is just some really bunk, just some wizardry going on that people are trying to convert people in on their orientation. But I don't

Larry  24:46  
have a lot of faith in junk science either. But if a person is really struggling with this issue, or they want to have therapy, I don't think that that would be the government's place to say you can't do that. But I'm not clear on what type of conversion therapy if it's if it's being forced upon these adolescence, or if it's of their own their own choosing if if you're a teenager where you don't have a teenager yet, or do you, but if he comes to you and says, I'm struggling with this, and I want I want some therapy because I just I just don't want to be that kind of yucky person would would that be? Would that be something that you would be

opposed to?

Andy  25:27  
That becomes an issue of? Well, that's a really interesting question. I hadn't thought about it that way. He just turned 12. So no, I mean, it's not a teenager. But if he decided if he felt that it is wrong to be one way or the other, I don't know that I would try and get him treatment to to flip his thinking. I would try to get him treatment to understand the way that he's thinking isn't necessarily wrong,

Larry  25:56  
personal, struggling and said, I just, I just can't be that feeling of urgency. But that's, that's not who I want to be. And I've heard of that happening then. Then I think maybe, maybe, maybe some therapy would be in order. And then the question is, how far how far you go with that therapy. If the person says, This is exactly what I feel inside? And that's who I want to be. That's the way I think God made me who are you to decide how God made someone

Andy  26:22  
Absolutely. But I mean, if you are just totally like wired to be a hair comes, I'm going to say it You ready? Here comes the bombshell if you are totally wired to like goober gobbling that

it isn't necessarily wrong, that you would feel that way. And you shouldn't necessarily be converted out of it. If that's how you feel. If that's the way that you are wired to like to be attracted to someone, then it doesn't have to be about that either. It could just be Hey, you just find that sex to be the attractive on why? How could someone else say that based on a book based on their worldview, that your worldview is wrong?

Larry  26:58  
Well, I'm agreeing with you on that, that, but I'm saying those people who hold those deep religious beliefs, they, they they truly, I mean, they say, well, we love the homosexuals. We love them dearly. We want to help them okay, well, how do you help them? Well, we want to get them we want to get them therapy so that they can get over this illness. I view it as an illness and as our donors they view it as a as a sinister choice of of engaging in an Obama they call that Obama nation I believe that

as as, as we love you, but we want you to quit engage in this Bible behavior.

Andy  27:32  
But the DSM doesn't, doesn't view it that way. So why would we, why would we not accept what the accepted sciences over the other view?

Larry  27:42  
Well, not not trashing them once, religious beliefs, but that's they take good people

believe dearly, and their, their religion religiosity for such a word, and they believe that, you know, the type that book is, it's been attributed to them as the way it should be. And they, they believe that this is an abomination and a chosen life.

Andy  28:05  
Hmm. All right, then, I'm going to have to ponder on that one a little bit longer. I'm glad you I'm glad

Larry  28:11  
we could give you something to ponder about.

Andy  28:13  
Well, here's an interesting one. The FCC revokes a ham license for convicted sex offender this actually is a pretty old article, I didn't even realize that this is a this is an article that's about almost five years old, four and a half years old, but it's out of Radio world.com, but I think the issue is still is a is relevant in that first of all, how many people I if you are under the age of 30, do you even know what a ham radio is? Do you know that they're like people that do like, like hobby radio stuff, where they communicate and they bounce radio signals off the clouds and talk to people in Australia, halfway

Larry  28:48  
around the world. I'm over 30 twice over and I barely know what it is. So I'm surprised

Andy  28:56  
um, but so I mean, if if, like a ridiculous small number of people would be impacted by this. But so here's a guy that the way the article reads, I believe the person is currently he would probably be in his 30s now, but he was convicted of at 18 have some indecent liberties with a child, whatever. And so he's convicted sex, a felon convicted sex felon and 25 months in prison. And then some judge on the panel for the FCC says that he can't hold a ham radio license because he would do evil things over the radio with children.

Larry  29:31  
Oh, it's possible,

right? I mean, when you were growing up, didn't you get on the ham radio and tried to to be solicited by adults? I mean,

Andy  29:44  
I know I did. I got half of that one. I did try to get on the ham radio. I did not try to get solicited by adults.

Larry  29:51  
But that would you imagine they're working out there is that I mean, before the internet, but was the prevalent way that they work with, they've been working on other means to know Donna, you know, big devil's advocate here, but what would they have been what they've been working somehow.

Andy  30:05  
Yeah, but I'm thinking about the distances here. Generally speaking, am radio is not good at short distances. FM radio would be good in your neighborhood, you know, or maybe up to your county level, it's going to be good for 10 or 20 miles am radio is not going to be good at 10 or 20 miles, it's going to be good at like, 200 miles. So now you're going to be picking up the kids at, you know, the next state over which I know people do do, but I don't think like the statistics, there seemed to be a really big long shot.

Larry  30:34  
Oh, they're just going by the black letter law says on the book that can't have this type of conviction to hold a license. And that's the way it is if you want to change the law. Change the law.

Andy  30:45  
Yeah, I guess that's what pretty much everything that we ever covered. Like if you don't like it, go change it. Well, how do you change it? We have to change the legislators how would we get the public to go for that it? Yeah, it's this big, long process. And but this was just like, sticks out as Bob me perhaps, like some over overreach, maybe?

Larry  31:05  
Yeah, well, we see it

Andy  31:05  
that way at all

Larry  31:06  
I do. I made it spun those things where we probably would have a hard time explaining why we're doing it

that that that as time evolves, we don't understand if you asked a person what we've always done it that way.

And I tell people, if that's the only reason you can come up with it's probably time for you to re examine why you're doing it that way. I mean, though, I don't hear anybody talk on ham radios anymore.

Andy  31:34  
They still do for sure. That has been like one of the backup plans and like the, what's the word, I'm looking for the ham radio operators. They stay in existence, and they're waiting for that whole Doomsday thing to drop and where they can be the final leg of communication after world war three or whatever. I don't know.

Yeah, but there's still ham radio operators out there.

Larry  31:59  
out of here. so little about when's the last time you've heard of a bite on a CB radio?

Andy  32:04  
Yeah, I wonder that as I've been traveling around lately, I'm I'm fairly certain that the truckers are still using it.

But

Larry  32:12  
all the all the hundreds of truckers we've got listening out there. Tell us if you're still using CBS because I'd be surprised

Andy  32:18  
Yeah, no doubt. Um, here's an article that's totally right up your alley. And it's from above the law above the law, how to pick a good criminal defense attorney and it goes through and list five different questions that you might want to ask your to keep in mind as you are looking into a criminal defense attorney. And my favorite one so far in reading this is the fifth one or says beware of websites like alto that claim to rate lawyers, I don't know what else you could use, honestly, to rate a lawyer. But that website pops up pretty prominently as saying, this is good one, this is a bad one. But they do say in there that maybe there might be some kickback programs involved between the lawyers and like, different, like top lawyers thing, and we got called out, I don't want to say call it out Leah Bickerton has one of these awards and she was like oh yeah, I think somebody sent me a letter and I paid a fee so yeah it's like totally you know not really it's not like rated by your peers or anything like that

Larry  33:16  
well for those who choose to read the article like to point number one don't automatically disqualify on the public defender and explains the general public defenders are like the best trained about savvy attorneys you can get they know the lay of the land and probably tried more cases than private attorneys in general are driven by mission and not money because I can assure you they very seldom get anywhere near the compensation they can get in the private system so that that I agree without point

I agree with point to about word of mouth but be careful and word of mouth because someone may have been a good attorney for one particular needed and they're not suited for your needs.

I'm not sold on port number three on the internet I know that's the way everything's done these days days but I'm not sold at the internet it's gonna be all that useful to you number for the amount of money the person charged doesn't always correlate with excellence. I agree with that

the people there one senior Lori advise to a younger warrior find out what a person does for a living figure out the highest amount he can pay if that's what you charge. Well, that's I've

Andy  34:22  
heard about using that for computer consulting

Larry  34:25  
Yes, there's there's some truth to that and so just because the person tells you they'll charge you $50,000 doesn't mean you're going to get $50,000 worth of representation and

so and then number five and what you've already covered about Evo

what are some other ones other than that do the same thing

Andy  34:48  
I'm not sure if any others offhand I encountered alto in in in looking up some attorneys I'm you know obviously doing a Google search but that just gets you the yellow book Yellow Pages list of them.

But another part mission of this podcast is to put you know, spoon feed some information into our listeners brains about maybe some other questions that you would be asking of an attorney, because most of us are looking for some kind of relief, which is going to require some level of litigation, which is going to require an attorney which means you have to start asking them certain kinds of questions and understanding their answers. Like one question would be Have you ever represented anybody post conviction before? Yes or no? I mean, that would be one question to find out if they only do pre trial work or post stuff right

Larry  35:37  
and and the summation here is so how do you really know the Lord is right for you? Common sense that they return calls properly, that listen to your questions and answer them intelligently and where the news is good or bad? Do they appear knowledgeable and have I have a What does that say that's cutting off to that were there something presence same at home and court and have a reputation for fighting like hell, have a web presence, okay,

did the attorney that you talked with maybe a very good attorney, and they do all the things well, but they're not suited for your needs. And that's where we're going to have to get better and helping people figure out most of our people are post conviction and that's a different type of an attorney. And most of the time to post conviction attorneys. The doors have already been closed by rules where you can't do your plate so you've got your life trying to thread a needle through a haystack in terms of post conviction you have very limited options when you've done a play because you have Jonathan so many of your rights and that in that process but but boy when you've got a good lawyer it's tough it really is figuring out the right questions to ask I happen to have done it a few times on helping people and you know we talked about our friend in Georgia which I'll leave nameless but he contacted arsenal of years back and we found that excellent attorney indicator, and by we managed to get him on convicted of a sexual offense because we got the right team together working on his case, but that was post conviction. And we threaded the needle through the way threaded the needle that I was tough to thread of what we had to work with, in terms of our options, post conviction. But what helps save us was he went to trial, and he had not just adults, right. So you had actually gone to trial convicted.

Andy  37:20  
I don't know if you're familiar with the movie, My Cousin Vinny, but these two kids, they're traveling out of state, they end up in Alabama, and you I'm sure you know, the movie, the TV show the monster so that's Fred when he was the judge on the panel on the in the court trials. And the kids had selected the, you know, they were using the court appointed attorney and he knew when they were behind closed doors, and they were talking to him. He's like, yeah, we're going to file this motion. We're going to do this. And as soon as he stood up in the courtroom, he turns on the biggest stutter, he's like, you, you, you,

you run, you run there and they were like, Oh, my God, we're doomed. So even still, the person could have all the right things to say behind closed doors, but still be a poor performer

Larry  38:04  
in a courtroom. To That is correct. And that, depending on your dates, if you're if you're on a trial setting, or if you were hearing is going to be had you want someone who can perform well in court, you know, we've got

afford ourselves. We've got a great lawyer that can do fantastic appellate work in Arkansas. I'm not saying he's a bad in court. He's a professor and he's in front of people all the time. But I've I've seen his work on paper, and it's fantastic. I've not seen very much of his court works. I'm not ready to tell people if you need a trial copy to call him. I can tell you if you need an appellate attorney, they don't come into better than him. Okay. That would be Professor Jay Thomas Sullivan, who's written a couple briefs. Ross

i would i would reserve judgment on his courtroom performances until I see him in court.

Andy  38:55  
But then could you off the top of your head? Could you list a handful of different areas of expertise? Is that the right way? So you know, talking about pre trial post trial probation stuff constitutional? I mean, I'm just rattling off things that might come to my mind can you expand on on the different areas of expertise that an attorney might have

Larry  39:18  
well it most of our listeners are going to be post conviction so you're going to be really concerned about their knowledge of papers corpus and post conviction relief x variations of like an Arkansas rule 37 like in Pennsylvania PC era going to be they're very concerned about how they do it in those type of settings. And a lot of the lot of the trial attorneys don't do post conviction and, and they'll take your money though they will they will take your money and say, well, I'll do give my best shot at it because I they like they like to be paid, but they're really not. And you know, when a lot of post conviction so you have to craft your questions around your specific issue. And what I find this of course, I'm not answering your question because there's no easy answer but but sure, what I what I find is people don't know what the issues are less people I'll get a 17 page letter which is graduation or user six, 810, 1215 page letters for people in prison and they'll tell their whole life story and none of that stuff as the the points that they're they're trying to make on appeal, you know, and I'll say, Would you write back and say, Would you please succinctly Tell me what your appellate issues are they can't do it if you can't tell your lawyer what your appellant issue is I can just about guarantee you that your lawyer will not be able to tell you the pellet strategy

the fact that you don't like being convicted it's not an appellate issue

Andy  40:37  
okay right

Larry  40:38  
right your appellate issue is or my palate issues are they they tied me to to to to stockade and they beat me for three hours until I confessed and sign the document that's an appellate issue that's a course can fight. You don't show that you don't need 14 pages to tell me that if you've got video of the judge sleeping with the prosecutor, that's a conflict of interest, that's an appellate issue. So number one, they taught me the stockade beat me. Number two, the judge will sleep there with the prosecutor, if you can't do those issues, you will never find the attorney unique.

Unknown  41:14  
And then also we would enter into the area of paying for that attorney to

Larry  41:19  
that is a big part of the get this old time whether don't turn to take my case. And I said, Well, when you say no attorney will take your case Do you may know attorney would take your case pro bono or you use told you told the attorney you were quite willing and able to pay a reasonable fee and attorney said, Nope, I will take your case because there's nothing here it's usually they don't have the money very self of that. They told me they told me there's nothing here now it would be great if they turn is tell them that there's rebel here to work with because please, are often done with quite an extensive admonishment before the play about what are you giving up and they ask you, do you understand all these things? Do you read the English language? What grade did you go through in school or your to the influence of any narcotics today? How's your turn? Yes, all this with you thoroughly. Do you understand you have the right to force the state to put you to break call witness against you, in a state spurred to prove you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Do you understand that? Do you understand? You have the right to call witnesses on your behalf? Three, but the states I mean, they go on and on and on with all these things. And you say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. And at the end of that, they say, okay, and how do you play? You say guilty? Yeah,

Andy  42:30  
it's not exactly fair to say, you know, to throw all of those, I mean, this completely new arena, if I laid down a computer manual, you would understand the words in your face, but you would not necessarily understand the concept and what the ramifications of set things are. So that's it's not it's not a fair system in that regard. Either because, you know, you're dealing it's, you know, it's a it's not a level playing field, you're not going in there with with the level of understanding that someone such as you does it right, right off the bat,

Larry  42:57  
that is correct. But when they asked you to you sending us language you need say, No, I do not

what, what's the highest grade? I'm not I mean, if you don't, you don't, I mean, I'm not saying to say you don't if you do. But if you have trouble comprehend, you need to say no, actually have a learning disability. And then the judge can order an evaluation to find out if you're what we call competent, you have to be competent to understand what right, you're giving up. And if there's any doubt raised about your competency, then they're supposed to be an evaluation to determine whether you're competent, you're presumed competent to erase evidence, you can say, No, Judge, I really don't understand that of the special education. I'm having trouble with what you're saying. Most judges, I can't say all but most judges would say councils approach the Bitch please,

Mr. Mr. Attorney, your client saying he doesn't understand we can't go on with this any further?

Yeah. Do you want to go talk to your client? Find out if he if he does understand if this is a charade, or do I need to order a psychological evaluation? That's what should happen when a person says I don't understand.

Andy  44:00  
Yeah, yeah, but that that's not even. I mean, you could be, you could be, you know, 120 hundred 30 iq person, you could be a very well versed, high functioning person, but you're an architect, you're a doctor, you're you're not in the legal profession. So all of these terms, you know, Jeff is saying, hey, Larry, can you talk down to me, you know, can you talk to me like I'm a five year old and explain this stuff to me because it's completely new concepts and processes and so forth. It's just completely foreign to the vast vast vast majority of us and then they're going to put it to you and it's going to come at you at 100 miles an hour it's really hard to try and pick up and gain a whole lifetime of education about the legal system especially while you're being held in custody and all that to try and catch up and understand the ramifications of the larger thing

Larry  44:44  
but theoretically and I'm saying this is the radical because of this is not reality in theory you've read the plea agreement you've initial off on it most most jurisdictions require you to sign it but you've some jurisdictions require you to initial each each each component right theoretically you've told your attorney everything you didn't understand now don't reality you're already says if you don't take this plea they're going to play out how they're going to give you 195 years and that's what you need to tell the judge need to say judge I really didn't understand a lot of this but my attorney told me I was going to get 190 years

and things got the judges accounts Pope's the bench

Andy  45:23  
yep right

Larry  45:23  
we're not trying to do is please bomb threats I did you did you did what did you actually say it turns gonna say well I told him if he got convicted of all the accounts and if the court were to run those statuses consecutively that he would have an exposure up to 190 years that's what I told him then the judge would go back and say well I'll explain that on the record and it's like Mr. defend what your attorney told you was that if you were to be convicted at trial and all of these counts being that we have seven cows and each one carries 12 years maximum if this court max you out and run those consecutively you're facing at four years in prison that's not what you're going to get necessarily that's your maximum exposure Do you understand that you do you understand if you were to be convicted and if this court were to send issue as harshly as it possibly could you could get up to 84 years

and then you would either say yes I understand that or no I don't yeah yeah I mean are you telling me that there's a whole group of people who can't understand that

Andy  46:25  
that part you could understand just you know I it's it's pretty daunting and again the playing field is certainly not level for us Luddites in the legal profession on what the ramifications of our actions are.

Larry  46:39  
Well, it's it's not it's just like when you go to the doctor and the doctor tells you you've got some kind of I can't explain and you've got fibrosis and cirrhosis. gobbledygook you take your doctors word most the time you say, unless you're like me, you say, Well, actually, I think I disagree with you. But but most people don't do that. I had a dentist Tell me for 10 years I needed to have an implant at a post and all this other said your your loser front tooth number nine. He said, If you don't, I said, I don't think I am Dr. I said, I think I've got to leave it the way it is. And here we are. I think I had the accident 92 when I fell on my face, I still got the same to to to Dennis wanted to remove. I put in an empty so let me just because someone tells you something doesn't mean to write it right. There is their opinion. And those are gives you an opinion that you're that he or she believes that with the strength of the evidence that they have that they're likely to get a conviction. more likely than not. If the jury gets to decide this case. That doesn't mean they're right. Agreed.

Andy  47:45  
Let's move on. Because this is definitely a beating a dead horse

a to recover. We didn't cover this one yet. Alright, this is from Vice News. And this is the prison system is a nightmare. But not for the reasons you think long, pretty long article, not the longest we've ever covered. But it's pretty long. And I think they profiled a person that spent a decade or so in prison, maybe two decades. And some of the points in there that were really kind of interesting to me was talking about how it's turned into an industry and that it's pretty much just used for warehousing. But the article goes over that, how about how much it's changed, but how much it's not changed over the centuries since we've had a prison system here in the United States. But like it says, in the south, after the defeat of reconstruction, black prisoners were literally work to death for private companies. That really began to end in the early 20th century, because cheap labor became available and easily used all over the world, the prison labor became less and less important to industry and to corporations. They could get cheap labor outside of the prison system.

And it seems you know, the way the article is describing things is that we have used it to marginalize some group of people, you know, at different times for different things going through as the Times have changed over the aeons that we've had prisons. But now it's just pretty much just some sort of a warehouse system as a bunch of stuff in there that I think would be exactly mirroring the things that you've said about it, that we need to figure out a way to incarcerate less, find more ways to rehabilitate people or give them opportunities for when they get out and so forth. So I thought it was a pretty well written and pretty well written article. And I liked it and I'm going to put on there

Larry  49:32  
I put it in there because I couldn't help myself. There was a quote and I think, figure out how to highlight it. But the because I can't find it right now. But there was a quote and this article about we should make prison and the recommendation so what we could do be as much as like on the outside is we can

Andy  49:47  
Yes, it's at that it's in the last paragraph. Yeah. Well, the last paragraph Yes, it is says if we follow those recommendations to provide education and healthcare for everybody that needs inside to reduce the prison population by using the non Carswell non prison techniques of resolving conflicts between people to make life inside institutions as much as possible, like life outside, so that there isn't this huge divide between the way people live inside and outside. And also in terms of reforming the police if there were democratic controls of policing, so that people decided what the police should do, what policies they should follow what communities they should operate in, and what crimes they should try to go after. If we had something like that it would be a profound reform and change in the way things operate. Well, I liked both of those. And

Larry  50:33  
that's what I gravitated to. When I when I read this long rate of preparation for the recording, because I've said that they're there, they're copying me. And I don't appreciate not not getting my royalties for that. But in terms of the police, I've said similar things, not on this podcast. But the police have this notion that they should decide what kind of equipment to use, what the law should be, how they should carry out their job, I disagree with that the police are a reflection of us, we will decide what kind of equipment you use Well, you will decide what the penalties are, we will decide what the priorities are a you will follow those directives and people look at me they roll their eyes and they tilt their chairs back and I will fall over backwards when I say that, you know, like like the the local police here the the the public schools, the APS police, they fought like hell to have guns in the schools. And I said, No, we we should get to decide how to keep No, you don't get to decide that you get to decide if you're an officer of the Albuquerque public schools police force, we decide whether or not you run around with guns on your side, if that's proper for an educational environment. And if you find it makes you if it compromises your safety, by all means, go find something where you can be safer. So

I really gravitated to those last two points. Because we decide those things not you. You the execute or where the decider

Andy  52:02  
didn't? Didn't george bush say that

Larry  52:05  
he did say he was the decider? Yes.

Unknown  52:07  
Um, but I mean, do you disagree

Larry  52:08  
with me? Do you think the police should decide what equipment they use? How much time they spend on certain things? And whether or not they get to have a battering rams to knock your house now, do you think they get to decide whether to get the tear gas everybody whether to get to put handcuffs on pregnant women? Do you think that that decision or do you think it's our decision as their employers,

Andy  52:29  
I think I I at least see that they would have say in it of influence of what would be appropriate, not necessarily, they just unilaterally make those decisions of they're going to use this new firearm, whatever, that it would have to still be approved. But since they would be the experts in the field, I mean, I don't have expertise in policing practices, I can decide that I shouldn't have a shock collar on my neck when I go to court. But you know,

Larry  52:53  
but that's what Oracle says, if there were democratic controls the police so that people decided what the police should do,

Andy  52:59  
right?

Larry  53:00  
If we over decide what the police can do, we'll quickly find out we don't have any police officers. But right now, we don't seem to have a shortage of police officers, but by the fact that there's not enough people volunteering now, what we do have a shortage of is that that what the rigorous screening that we do to make sure that no one has smoke, they need to open their live that was shooting every moving target that that pops up because they do all this simulation and training and they tell you that you're dead, you're dead all these different times if you don't have a certain response. So they weed out a lot of people for various reasons that probably shouldn't be weeded out. That might make verified police officers. But yeah, sure, but it's, it's a pretty good paying job. It's not like they're doing this as a community service.

Andy  53:43  
Certainly that so

Larry  53:44  
boy, now watch all the death threats. I'm going to get now for saying

Andy  53:50  
anyway, I encourage everyone to go read it. I'm really excited about this next article. This is from Fortune Magazine, I guess is that fortune com? Is that Fortune magazine? I'm pretty sure it is.

And the title of it is fake. porn videos are terrorizing women do we need a law to stop them, I am terrified of this one that you're going to let me they profile that plenty of actresses are having their faces put into so take like, we'll call them a stunt double. So take a real pornographic video. And with that social media, so prolific and everyone has 10,000 pictures of themselves posed up there in all kinds of different angles that you can now get computers to completely render a fake head and now you can replace your you know, filling your favorite actress or actor here and now you can put them in your favorite porn video, then go release that stuff online. And now you have completely doctored videos out there that are really difficult to distinguish from truth from reality. The other part of that that they don't cover in this article but I've heard talks about it is you could get a enough of the phone names of someone speaking and then you could create, you know, and then use the same technique here. You could fabricate Trump saying what ever you want him to say that he did pay off. I know you could get Trump like, like, you need a whole lot of things. Nevermind. You could say whatever you want. You have the video to go along with it. You have an audio and it's basically flawless. I don't. I don't know how you get around. Like, here's the video evidence of it. Do you deny this? You I deny it. But you would never get a jury to go. No, that's not him. Because there would be no way to detect it. It's not him.

Unknown  55:41  
Well,

Larry  55:43  
I feel woefully inadequate to respond. I did read the articles long read, but it's one of those things where technology has gotten ahead of our laws. I mean, oh, yeah. Who would have ever thought about being able to do what you just described? I can barely Think about it. What would you describe it

making a porn video out of out of a star celebrity. And then that defamed them because you don't know the difference between a big false or not. But it said according to the laws, it typically takes $50,000 to pursue a lawsuit, which is what you have the right to do under under our existing law. If somebody is portrayed you as as not you, then you can file a lawsuit. Well, there are people saying that that's way to Congress, sometimes you file a lawsuit, because there should be an easier takedown process. Well, we've learned from trying to get take downs done that that's not a process that works very easily to get something taken down that should be taken down. So I don't know the answer. It sure has raised a lot of good questions. So hasn't it?

Andy  56:39  
Yes. And one of the things that happened recently, and this is a foster ancestor, I think are the are the titles of the the sex trafficking and whatever the hell they are. But that is how Craigslist ended up pulling down their personals and now we covered it a couple weeks ago, Tumblr is going to remove their adult section or whatever it is, but the section of the law, it's called section 230. And it keeps a internet provider from being culpable for what the people upload. And so that has been gutted a little bit, I guess, to then make it so that Craigslist may actually be culpable for having some sort of personal uploaded, they shouldn't be held responsible. Like the newspapers haven't been held responsible for somebody posting some, you know, an advertisement in the personal section

and I I don't how do you how do you validate the site, you're going to go after somebody that is just providing a social networking site and somebody posts a video of

fake video I like why would you hold them accountable for what somebody else has done? I don't I don't see how that works either.

Larry  57:49  
Well, it's it's a it's it's going to require a lot

of evolution on our thinking of how far are we willing to go because the the, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, I would have budgets going to be pushing back saying this is Big Brother monitoring the internet.

Andy  58:04  
Yes, but I yeah, and they weren't covered in there. But,

you know, then where does your first amendment rights come in? You know, I mean, you could call it a free expression, you know, I just wanted to have some porn of my favorite hot actress here. And this is what I did, and someone stole my computer and uploaded it. I how am I culpable for that?

Larry  58:23  
Well, that's that was actually going to say that what what makes it Okay, you know, it's not you. And of course, I'm, I can say this was comfort, because I can assure you, no one is ever going to make porn feature. So it's a

Unknown  58:42  
full dried shriveled up thing, right?

Larry  58:45  
It's easy for me, just like a crusty Larry

Andy  58:47  
over there.

Larry  58:48  
But But if you have the right to create art, and I'm not going to go so far say this is art. But certainly, I guess if it's out the public domain, and you want to take someone's head and put it somewhere else who hosts to stop you from doing that? Right. That's right. technical question. I mean, who's to stop you from doing that?

Andy  59:11  
I don't, I don't know. So, yeah, so I saw that the FF was pushing like, there would be arguments on first amendment, but maybe you could carve it out and go this this goes to like the Supreme Court side of it. Well, what defines porn? It's like, I don't know what defines it, but I would know it when I saw it. And that would be the same thing here. Well, how do you know it's some sort of pornographic material where does across the line between artistic expression and something along the lines of revenge porn or whatever it's just like I I just the computers are coming to take over Larry and I don't see how we're going to stop it other than actually changing like our moral code that this is unacceptable and we shamed them in a cultural standpoint they just don't do it from from that point of view I don't know it confuses me

Larry  59:56  
well the the the part where the the Electronic Frontier Foundation comes in the paragraph it says not everyone is convinced that this is a good idea the section the section 230 law is regards many innovation or piece of legislation which allowed us internet companies to flourish in the absence of legal threats

bringing beauty for websites could stifle business and free expression this raises a question where the Congress good draft a lot arrow enough to help victims of deep fakes which is what they're referring to this is and I've never heard this before without such unintended consequences as a cautionary tale Annamarie Brady a law professor at University of Idaho points to the misuse of copyright takedown system which companies and it was just back that in bad faith to remove legitimate criticism of other of other legal content so this is a tough tough but

Unknown  1:00:43  
yeah I don't know how that I don't know how that minefield gets Nagra navigated so

Larry  1:00:48  
it's it's a very tough

Andy  1:00:51  
ready to be a part of registry matters. Get links at registry matters dot CEO.

If you need to be discreet about it. Contact them by email registry matters cast at gmail. com. You can call or text around some message to 747 to 74477 want to support registry matters on a monthly basis. Head to patreon.com slash registry matters. Not ready to become a patron. Give a five star review at Apple podcasts

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or tell your buddies that your treatment class about the podcast. We want to send out a big heartfelt support for those on the registry. Keep biting. without you. We can't succeed. You make it possible. Hey, let's go talk about my favorite subject in the entire world. I think that this is from Shelby star

Unknown  1:01:46  
costs. This is about your favorite. This is my absolute favorite subject.

Andy  1:01:51  
Private Investigator brings polygraph services to Shelby wherever Cleveland County North Carolina This is so excited and I highlighted I like as I was reading through it I was like oh this guy is actually trying to help out the defendant of being falsely accused but I just like the some of the statements here. So the the the calligrapher guy's name David post and pasta and it says he has a knack for spotting lies. First off, if he has a knack for spotting lies. Why does he need the polygraph machine? That's my first criticism of it.

And he says that calligraphy is an evolving science and that's bullshit right out of the gate because it's not even science to begin with so it can evolve and then I sit you know sit for that to be true I mean even have to be a science and it's not it's Voodoo. Ah this drives me crazy

well

Larry  1:02:46  
if you say so

Andy  1:02:51  
so he's he's he says he studies that he's he's supposed to have a minimum of 12 hours of training every two years but this guy racked up 30 years alone in the past year it's like okay dude you're studying a lot of Voodoo I just bothers me it just bothers me there's no scientific evidence behind it if he is capable of watching your little micro expressions to figure out if you're lying or not well then you then he is the skilled expert at this which is also probably bullshit but

Larry  1:03:22  
although

Andy  1:03:24  
that's all yes validates

Larry  1:03:24  
what his observations are though because he he he analyzes your your body reactions and then he analyzes what the computer picked up with what the all the different readings and I can't explain all the different things it's measuring. But it's measuring a whole plethora of things breathing and restoration and heart rate and what they call that galvanic skin response. Yes,

Andy  1:03:49  
yes, they're checking for the moisture on your skin to see if you're some level of sweating, which only means that you're stressed. They're checking for your breathing speed, which again, only means that you're stressed. They're checking for your pulse rate, which again, only means your stress, they're checking for your eye fluctuations, which again, only means you're stressed. It doesn't mean that you're lying and being deceitful.

Larry  1:04:07  
Well, I think we should have Mr. Post and come on

Andy  1:04:10  
we we cut Should we do that? Should we actually trying to invite the adversary on here to get them to defend their claim?

Larry  1:04:17  
Well if he'd be willing to combine people into this will be fun. I could just sit on the sidelines and let let you have at it with him know

Unknown  1:04:26  
you can you can you can

Larry  1:04:27  
tell. You can tell him it's blue do

Andy  1:04:29  
Yeah, I got what would i would i be appropriate and staying aggressive against somebody like that? Or would i would i be best suited to pull back and I would like I would be pander along and let him I don't know. I'm just I don't know how to

Larry  1:04:44  
interview the adversary. I would be very, very nice. And let him explain his his science is evolving science as he referred to it. Oh my god, it's fucking bullshit. All right. Sorry for the family program.

Andy  1:04:57  
I whispered it I whispered it I believe it in post I'm not going to do that. All right. Us judge halts imposition of registration requirement on parolee with no sex offense record, I think we've covered these kind of things before where someone gets acquitted or some you know, very, very minor offense and then he ends up on the registry and has all these owners requirements. I think the question I wanted to ask you about this kind of thing is if a person that doesn't have the actual sexual offense on them, but they end up kid getting all these restrictions put on them and he says that it says that you know how onerous it is for a person to survive with all these labels on them It seems like that almost emboldens our case that you know fine you got convicted of it you still have these owners claims put on you to make your life so difficult to live by it almost feels to me like these things actually support our costs

Larry  1:05:55  
Well, they do if you have a purpose purpose if I can pronounce it judge what what we have here is a person who actually has a conviction that qualifies as a ritual fence it's not a sex offense but it's a kid that big of a minor and that is put put some on the offender registry many states that was in the original Jacob Wetterling act that what was it was more geared toward people that committed crimes against against minors and so if you go rob your local subway and you lock the teenagers in the cooler so they can identify you that's good reconsider something on the lines of a false imprisonment that would qualify or taking one of them with you as a hostage even though you have no sexual interest in them and he was convicted of a gradual fence it just wasn't a sex offense

Andy  1:06:43  
so he right

Larry  1:06:44  
he goes into federal court and he finds in one of these lifetime liberal do good legislate from the bench type of judges I'm doing this because this is what they claim when when when we when we that something that generally to disagree with a pretend that you judge shop what you don't get to judge shop you you fall it is random assignment but he went in and judge shopped and found him a liberal lifetime appointed judge the decided that she wanted to use our the will the legislature the New York General Assembly decided that kidnapping is a red ritual fans. And that is if you believe in states rights. And you believe in and judges they being the interpreters of the law. I don't know how you could support his decision because the judge did not interpret the law. The law clearly covers him and the adverse consequences that flow from that is not for that judge to decide. The judge was decide whether or not the law covered have made it clearly does it clearly there's a lot of states so so you should have a beef if you're if you're a texture list. And you're if you believe that judges exists not to legislate from the bench, this should be as offensive in politics, anything you could ever do here off right course, I'm open to like it, because I believe that that that generates a discussion about it. And it forces the assembly people in Albany to think about if they're going to call something a sex offender registry that may be at all to have something to do with sex. It's kind of like when you call it something violent offense and as people have away, but I think why do we call this a violent offense when there's no violence? I'm confused. Right. Well, right. So I appreciate that. The judge did it. But it goes contradictory to what most conservatives would say that they wanted a judge because that judge is clearly deciding for the people of New York what they want. And that's not for that judge to decide. Yeah,

Andy  1:08:41  
yeah, I did find a little bit of a quote, it says, As such, he face limitations on where he can live and travel and what he can do on the internet, even whether he can own a pet. How in the world does the sex offender registry prevent you from owning a pet?

Larry  1:08:56  
Well, I've never heard of it. But I'd be anxious to know not heard of that. But I think his probation conditions that that people might be prohibited from owning a pet particular if that's good, their offense pattern.

Andy  1:09:08  
Well, I mean, if you're if you're convicted of some sort of sexual offense and beastie realities in there, then that seems appropriate that you wouldn't be allowed to have a pet, at least not one with nevermind, I'm not going to get gross.

Unknown  1:09:20  
So

Andy  1:09:22  
that's really bizarre that you wouldn't be able to own a pet. Maybe that's to protect probation for you having some rabid pit bull that whenever they come to the door, you know, gets unleashed and attacks the handlers coming coming to your door.

Larry  1:09:35  
I'll probably find now this is just a preliminary injunction, it is not the outcome of the case. So the case could flip again, when it's finally out. But But to get a preliminary injunction, you've convinced the Trier of fact that you're likely to succeed on the merits. So the judges already telegraphed that it's not looking good for you to New York to have this law that call someone a sex offender say New York to come back and fix that and let me I got a whisper this so that people in Albany will hear this all you have to do to fix this is to take the term sex offender off and call it an offender registry and then once you do that he's on on a sex offender registry is on an offender registry right Right. Right.

Andy  1:10:18  
That but but does that been floated anywhere to change the you know, that would that would broaden it to be you're just a convicted felon you're an offender

Larry  1:10:24  
or Well Well, there's some states that have that do call it that where they register more than sex offenders and I call it our violent or there that color are

violent crimes, but but they could fix that but several judge it's not just a sex offender registry. I mean, it's an offender registry and we happen to have right offense listed as, as our prerogative not yours, if you want to decide what to build our list of Rachel fist maybe you should climb off of that bitch and one for assembly.

Andy  1:10:52  
Right, right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Gosh, but okay. So that one might might go in our favor. But then also, the legislature will turn around and possibly undo the positive aspect of it. Well,

Larry  1:11:04  
they could they could, they could take that thing off, or they could require. So we fixed that a long time ago. And our state thanks to our work, we've got that fixed work or the kidnapping can be registered. But it has to has to be proven that it was a sexually motivated kidnapping the barn Right, right, right, right, to prove that boat before you can require registration. But our law used to be the same way. But it's exciting things that sometimes

Unknown  1:11:26  
we as in we went down to the state capitol, and we told the legislators that we didn't want it that way. So we collectively made it so that it wasn't that way

Larry  1:11:34  
anymore. We got a lot of help from the Criminal Defense Lawyers Association. And we were able to convince them that a sex offender registry should require some sexual motivation to be on a sex offender registry. And there's other things I'd like I want to take a decent exposure off the list, it's not required. I mean, it's required, it's all the list, but you could be AWS compliant and not risk register indecent exposure, but all 57 states have it on their list of residual fence, as far as I know, and it's not required, you can put it there. But But what will you submit your compliance packet you don't have to have a decent exposure is a vegetable offense, and you'll still be that that won't be a factor in the consideration because it's not on the list of of AWS list of target. If it's it's, it's not there. It's just something that sprung up through years old. Oh, well, they're out there showing their jobs. They've got to be a sex offender. Right, right. Right. Right. Right.

Andy  1:12:32  
And then coming out of Milwaukee, we have the Journal Sentinel sex offenders would be able to reside in a whopping 24% of the city under Brookfield new ordinance. So this is the city of Brookville has repealed and recreated a sex offender ordinance to ensure that the city is able to enforce its ordinance and prevent the city from a costly federal lawsuit. If it is deemed unconstitutional. The prior to their reworking of IT people that had you register would be able to live I think it said it says which is currently seven and a half percent of the city and they feel that that is going to come under constitutional challenge because there's not enough place for people to go. So they've reworked it where certain kinds of parks might be or not be included. And playgrounds may or may not be, etc. So they've removed the loitering provision. And there is an approval process if you can get yourself in front of a judge and get some sort of an exception put in place. So yes, from 7% to 24% is a huge improvement. But still 24% is pretty that's a lot of places you can't be

Larry  1:13:39  
well, that is true and and and this is right spots to a

loss it so successful in Hoffman versus village of pleasant prairie or a federal district judge that those restrictions which were very similar are unconstitutional. So we got to give him some credit, they at least rather than waiting for Genesis to come sue them or someone similarly situated in that state, they realized that if they if they don't make a change to to increase the availability of housing stock, that they're that they're vulnerable. So they're, they're, they're, they're, they're taking a proactive measure to dramatically I mean, if you go from 7% to 25%, that's three almost four times as much as it is a separate lifetime increase. Of course, I think 100% should be available, don't you?

Unknown  1:14:28  
Right, exactly. So but but

Larry  1:14:31  
this is in response to a federal judge. They don't want the same thing to happen to them. But that doesn't stop it doesn't stop it from happening. You can still come back and say it's still too small. I mean, you can still syllabus you want to

Andy  1:14:42  
Sure, sure. Just and you know, 7% is an easier hurdle to climb in your in your suit and 24, I suppose. I guess that's how that would come down. Right? That is correct.

Hey, you know what we need in this world, we need more registries. So there is a push this is in Boise, Idaho. Whoa. It's called Tina's law aims to create legislation for domestic violence offender registry and this way my point here is something where it says that they shouldn't be able to hide from this and move from one state to another and says hold them accountable for their actions that can't run from say Arizona to Washington to Florida to Hawaii or whatever because they will be on a national registry but come on man you like in the modern era you could just like go click and search for the person's name and know that they are a convicted felon from another state and feel free to do what you want to do with I'd like why do we need yet another registry to keep people accountable between different different states or cities like that

Larry  1:15:43  
well if you read the rest of that story you'll see why because of the depth of the it's a sensationalize case of a of a domestic violence that turn really awful and and we we have a propensity to want to fix things you know these these these rare instance this is they they trigger a significant overreaction. I think, in my opinion, anyway. It's an overreaction, that domestic violence is a horrible thing and and billions of people suffered domestic violence in this country and a significant number actually men Believe it or not,

Andy  1:16:17  
right

Larry  1:16:18  
absolutely. You know, it's far more women but significant number of men are victims of domestic violence. So they they suffer from all the prejudices of yeah she weighs 110 pounds and you weigh 190 well she beat me over the head with a frying well it wasn't really all that bad I mean how hard could she hit you

but we effectively have what you said your your criminal history is is is with you regardless of where you go, and domestic violence and

I do feel bad for people but was one of those things where it's so difficult to prosecute, because there was a love factor there and right often there's a recantation or there's a deliberate under bye of the prosecution. I'm not sure any amount of this will fix domestic violence. Because if you fall in love with someone, and they've moved from Arizona, to Maine, and they were convicted of domestic violence in Arizona, they put on this beautiful act of how sweet lovable they are. And they fall in love with someone and they don't domestic violence does it usually from understanding manifest itself in a relationship,

they don't, they don't start they don't start engaging domestic violence, whether the recording process that though it's only when they get in a serious relationship, that the symptoms become more obvious and it and it tends to escalate over time. And I just don't see that that's going to be a solution to it. all it's going to do is make more lepers of people that of course, will be opposing such registries, every chance we get in my state, I could tell you that eating registry that's proposed we were probably don't care what it's all

Andy  1:17:52  
right. sure why. And I mean, another point of that is, you know, what is the actual effectiveness of the registry, the sex offender registry, you could probably expect that a domestic violence one would have some sort of equal level of effectiveness

Larry  1:18:06  
Well, it's hard to measure the effectiveness of the registry we tell people the crimes that didn't happen are most difficult to count but I don't try to defend it on that I tried to defend it on you just can't punish people for the done their time I don't go with all that statistical sort of say BS. But people believe in happy to, to make the argument I use my little Gatling gun analogy. Let me put 100 bullets that and I'll tell you on in three or more live rounds, and you go out 100 yards link to the football field, will you let me shoot it actually, you know, the three are going to kill you or hurt you. Right. And most people would never do that. So you you can't win that argument that that recidivism is low. And that if you if you if you bind going down that path of if it saves one. And that's what you do when you when you when you say statistical you can't prove it, you can't prove it. Because the rates of sexual offenses are similar. Even the states that have harsh registers with those that don't have horse registry, you and rates of offending in general have gone down across the category of crime last 25 years, which has been largely the history of the sex literature, since I'm at diners. So you really you can't do anything. So I don't want to argue that way. boys or girls, you just can't do it. If you're going to have

or you're going to impose this on people after they've done their time, you just can't do it. You can perhaps have a male in a forum to you and register once and keep their address current through the mail. You can possibly do that within the constitution framework. But you can't further restrict people's liberties after they pay their debt to society. So So that's my tactic. Let I'll let people that want to argue about the statistics do that.

Andy  1:19:47  
And here we have two articles that are basically covering the same thing with a little bit of a different spin on them. But both of them are from the New York Times its federal courts running out of money, brace for shutdown, pain, and the second one is shut down threatens to delay criminal justice reform signed into law by Trump. Here we are, what are we coming up on 30 ish days of the shutdown? I forgot the exact number. I know it's past three weeks. So we're probably coming up in the high 20s. And I didn't really think about this, you brought it up a handful of days ago, when we were talking on the phone that like the court system is running on, you know, on fumes of the federal court system on money that they just, you know, have in their petty cash box, I guess. And so people that are expecting to process are going to have it delayed. And so on the one side, it could be good on one side, it might not be

Larry  1:20:36  
so good. I can't imagine that there I can't conceive of who would benefit and our constituency from the courts closing down because if your pre trial in the federal system and that's what we're talking about the federal system, you're largely in some form of custody, oftentimes very harsh custody conditions, because they've had such an over over use of pre trial, the tension and the federal system, you're not in pre trial, the tension you're in rigorous monitoring, you'll be at a halfway house with the monitoring very rigorously so you're you can run the risk of having to be in those preventive detention facilities for a very long period of time, depending on how long this goes. And if you're trying to get post conviction relief from from the federal system in which a lot of state cases go in through habeas corpus procedures in federal court. If the federal courts are not able to operate that would tend to newer to the benefit the state if you've got a good habeas claim and the in the courts are shut down that just delays the the the claim be considered. So I don't see how we would benefit much from this. I guess the person might benefit would be somebody who was released on their own recognizance. That there is such an individual the federal system and they were scheduled for trial and there's all gets pulled off and definitely, I guess they would, but but I'm not aware very many people in that condition. In that situation.

Unknown  1:21:58  
It's 29 days at the moment. The way

Larry  1:22:02  
it is a record, I think

Andy  1:22:03  
it is. It's definitely the longest the second longest was 21 days. And that was in 95 under clinton was back in Yeah. So anyway, I didn't realize it was 29 News. And it was in the 20s.

So yeah, so that's the some good news. I didn't realize that to me that I probably the question that I wanted to ask you, like, pre show was about what constitutes someone being quote unquote, essential, versus I wish to me it seems like the courts would be considered essential ish.

Larry  1:22:35  
Well, and that would be the thing to you. But I would expect eventually see start happening here is that Congress will seek to reopen what they consider more essential functions of government. And they might be the threat of an override have a presidential veto, because the President's steadfastly said that he wanted allow anything to be reopened and he's going to be doing anything. So it's going to require a piecemeal approach if they can't come to an agreement on the border wall funding, and we consider the course to be essential. But it is an interesting debate, because most private businesses, you know, they consider other employees to be pretty much essential. And so when the government can shut down and send home a third of the workers and say they're not essential, it kind of sends out a bad message to folks I said, Well, why do we even have them if they're not essential? Well, I think you're starting to see how central they are traffic control is going to suffer TSA screening is going to suffer DSA screenings already suffered because there's a lot of colon six people not getting paid and they're getting a little frustrated about why they should show up to work and not use their time to look for other jobs if you're not going to be paid most most people expect or payday and they rely on that so it's becoming a very ugly situation and it's going to harp lives and I think it's gonna eventually hardly economy with with a million people not not collecting a paycheck so Time will tell but it's lasted longer than any other one

Andy  1:23:56  
yep i a long shot so I just it's an interesting little spin on how that might impact some of our people either trying to get relief or you know they're stuck in detention and and maybe they would be found innocent and go home but here they are they're stuck so they they get to spend their time in pre detention stuff right right

Larry  1:24:13  
well if you listen if you listen to the largely conservative talk show host you'll hear that the government shutdown nobody misses it. Well, that's not true that there there are a lot of people who are missing government and they've even taken steps to try to keep it for big denied their tax refund. So they've read called 30,000, I think, for my treasure employees to try to do tax returns. But if they're not going to pay them if they don't have the money to pay them Delta or sorry to pay them. I don't know how many of them are going to show up for the 30 thousands I recall.

Andy  1:24:45  
Right. Um, Alright, so here is something where I wanted your opinion, this is an article from slate, and this is going to have you pulling out your deep legal theory, propeller hat kind of thing and trying to get the mind of Neil Gorsuch and the other conservative justices because they the Supreme Court just handed a big unanimous victory to workers Wait, what conservatives don't normally I guess normally side with workers, they normally sided with corporations. I guess that's sort of like the painting with a really broad brush here. And the case was an individual who was working as a driver and he was listed as a contractor thus, he's getting paid by the hour but the the company is taking a his expenses like, you know, rental of the truck and miscellaneous other things, he would actually end up with a negative paycheck at the end of the two week period, because he's not an employee, he's listed as a contractor. And I totally just threw this in here through this in here actually, like a couple weeks ago, because I wanted to get your opinion on the the the frame of mind between the conservatives versus the liberal kind of justices, and how that kind of clashes against what our issue would be, or in this case in this this worker dispute, and so what do you think?

Larry  1:26:06  
Well, I think it's an example of texture realism coming to to be beneficial, because that's how Gorsuch was able to justify, of course, it was a unanimous decision, I think, but that was how he was able to come to that decision is he said that

this was a class action lawsuit for four people a class action lawsuit sometime is the way to go. And so this guy launched a class action lawsuit on behalf of the truck drivers who had similar claims. And the the the company argued that the that there was the there was an arbitration agreement that had been entered into and that therefore it was binding and that he didn't have the right to go to court, he had to be subject to binding arbitration, but the the amicus briefs that came in

described when the federal or when the FAA the Federal Arbitration, not the Federal Aviation Administration, but when the FAA when that particular Act was passed in 1925 that employee about was considered a work and you look addiction dictionary from the time that they that they didn't distinguish, we are a contractor that that was something that evolved over time,

you know,

independent contracting as Miss used a lot by employers, because they want to avoid things that employers are responsible for. So as society has imposed more requirements on employers, they try to find it. I think you're familiar with the concept. And so yes, the conservatives said, Well, now we got to take a look at that darn thing. Just like what that would have been interpreted 1925 which is almost 100 years ago. And at that time employment, what would what would that would have been don't distinguish it, therefore, he is an employee, he's not a contractor. There was no such word back then. So therefore, he he's not bound by these arbitration agreements that are imposed on contractors, by golly, so that's how they got to that decision. I haven't read that decision. But that's best I can take out of it from the story is, that is a big victory, though, because he he he's, he's able to proceed with his case as a class action and have his day in court and trying to prove out his claims as a class rather than as an individual. And that's that's just fantastic news. If you believe that workers do have valid grievances, which I do, I don't leave all companies are pure driven, is the winner is the winner of and snow and that they do only good things for people. And I believe that this is a good thing.

Andy  1:28:45  
Well, it's pretty notorious, that company and not to say that ups is a bad company, but they keep their employees at like 35 ish hours. So that if something does run over a little bit, that they don't ever pay anybody overtime. And that also then keeps them from having pay health insurance and other kinds of full time employment better it's because none of their employees are full time I get the I get the corporate strategy behind it of reducing expenses, but it's kind of a ship move.

Larry  1:29:08  
Now, let's make sure we're not taught by ups. We're talking about new Prime here.

Andy  1:29:11  
Oh, I know that. I know that. No, I didn't mean to make

Larry  1:29:13  
sure the list. Yeah. Okay. We're not we're not not bad mouthing ups. We're, we're talking about this one company called do prime.

Andy  1:29:21  
But yeah, so I mean, companies all like often are I mean, even the company I work for, I mean, the bottom line is what matters pretty much first after that, then they'll layer on other things, but when it comes down to it, they're going to save their own bacon first

Larry  1:29:35  
That is correct. It's an interesting that result

The dictionary definition from 1925 and they say that reference they looked at like six dictionaries, citing six dictionaries from the error as well as contemporary statues are really courses concluded that a contractor employment was understood to encompass worker Grievers evolving independent contractors okay so as a result Olivero along with his other things markers on transportation qualify for the FA a exemption so his class action will proceed to court that's interesting so so so texture did us a favor

Andy  1:30:12  
right that Yeah, I totally see that as being just like a could work in your favor it could not work in your favor but I also see that you shouldn't necessarily stand on one side of the fence which you know but then that introduces all of the interpretation that it shouldn't just be whether it supports your claim or not there are places where it applies and where it shouldn't apply

Larry  1:30:30  
that test swap bring this stuff up I want people to have these bumper stickers on conference before Don't believe everything you think I have one and a lot of times you you think you're in alignment with something and if you really think it through you'll figure out that you're not that that's not what you really support

I'ma provoke or have thought ah.

Andy  1:30:50  
Don't have provoked

Larry  1:30:53  
and people who who religiously say that they're attached list and that they are that they don't that there should be the oldest evolving standards of decency is hogwash and I remind them well okay if that's what you are the don't complain about the results because that's a very logical outcome if you are a textual list right right. The rest case I keep harping on that was a completely logical outcome because the text says he will register and by golly not only to he registered but about 70 other out of state convicted juveniles without registering in Nebraska he as far as I know, I don't believe that they've been able I think that judge calls if I remember right and hank you can feel free to correct me but I predicted he would dissolve is a junction and I believe he did very shortly after I said he would because he didn't have anything else to hang his hat on

Andy  1:31:42  
her from hanging a little while

Larry  1:31:44  
oh yeah he said something just just this past week I just didn't respond to but thank you Frank for

Andy  1:31:48  
sending that he's still sending it to the wrong email address then

Larry  1:31:52  
I know he's struggling Hey struggling with your email address is something left out but but I did get something from Hank and and there's a piece of legend that I can be a little more specific before we conclude that they're going to expand the definition of violence

to to be very broad so practically anything what what we what what they're trying to do is to make sure that even if you don't use force that that they defined force broadly enough and I misspoke bonds but they wanted to enforce broadly let's include things like I remember a police officer from good at county Georgia your your your suburb of Atlanta there he he argued that he had a conviction where he rolled up on a couple having sex I'm a filter boy to get going. It was a younger guy, and he told him to get going then the he worked out a solution with the with the adult woman and

she she said that was force that he was carrying a gun and that that they were able to work it out. But that that constituted force and the Georgia court so great with our that that that person carrying a gun say we could get this all straight down. That is force Well, is it

Unknown  1:33:06  
huh. It's coercion, but is it force, right?

Unknown  1:33:09  
Yeah, I get that. Yeah, sure.

Larry  1:33:12  
So that's what Hank sent me that they're going to expand the definition, okay. All right. So they can get more people convicted in it. It's going to be Hank, as can be really hard to fight that it's going to be really, really hard. I'm not saying doom and gloom, throwing the towel but I'm telling you that and all the listeners and Nebraska that you've got a very well organized establishment that's pushing for that and it's the victims advocates to be to movement and a whole lot of people law enforcement side are saying that they need that so that they can prosecute bad guys. And when they look around the room at the hearing and ask people who are opposed to it. There's not going to be a soul in there. You'll hear nothing but crickets. Right? And it's going to be very hard for those 49 senators in Nebraska, which is all to have, and the one chamber that they have the human capital is going to be very hard for them to actually you don't need this when they are Sol Sol they're speaking against it.

Andy  1:34:03  
Gotcha. Well, let's shut this mother down. All right. How can people find the podcast?

Larry  1:34:12  
Well, it's gonna be very difficult if I don't have my screen. Oh,

Andy  1:34:17  
you don't have this memorized? This is Episode 60. And you still don't have this memorized? Well I

Larry  1:34:22  
got the phone number for us but they have to go to registered matters dot CEO first. Gotcha. Okay, good. And I just I just referred that to an attorney who didn't know about us and my state is awesome. I'm gonna I'm going to check that out.

Andy  1:34:33  
Oh, please. If you are that attorney listening, please write in and let us know what you think. I would love to hear from you.

Larry  1:34:38  
And and then the way I like to communicate people's old fashioned you can call us it's 747-227-4477. And you can leave a message because we don't have any staff to answer the phone.

Andy  1:34:54  
And what about sending us an email message directly?

Larry  1:34:58  
All of these are going to go to Andy could do that. But you can send an email to registry matters cast@gmail.com and then what is the ultimate bestest, bestest way to support the podcast and show your love that would be through patreon.com slash registry matters outstanding you can get yourself you can get yourself hooked up

Andy  1:35:19  
absolute to us and then receive some

Larry  1:35:22  
wicked hook you we can hook you up and say we hook you up with blue balls absolutely

Andy  1:35:27  
hey if I haven't sent you blue balls and you are like like waiting by the post the by the mailbox every day like let me know and I'll and I'll get one shipped out to

Larry  1:35:37  
and that would be to let you know, they would send you an email

Andy  1:35:39  
at the email I just gave Sri matters cast@gmail.com or there's a form on the website that you can send in that comes to my personal email. So yeah, either way.

So that's all I got. Man. I hope you have a one. All right.

Well, thank you, Andy. And I will talk to you soon. Take care. Bye. Bye bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai