Andy 0:00 registry matters is an independent production. The opinions and ideas here are that of the hosts and do not reflect the opinions of any other organization. If you have a problem with these thoughts, FYI p recording live from fit studios, east and west, transmitting across the internet. This is Episode 62 of registry matters. Happy Saturday to you, Larry. How are you? Larry 0:22 Thank you, Andy. I'm just having a wonderful Saturday. been fun. Delightful day. Andy 0:27 And thank you for coming back. Larry 0:29 Coming back. Where did I go? Unknown 0:31 Well, thank you for coming back. And joining me again. Larry 0:34 Oh, it's my pleasure always to join you. I just love hearing your dynamic voice. Unknown 0:43 What should we talk about? Before we we go into the show? Andy 0:46 What words of wisdom what sort of fun stories might you have? Larry 0:50 I don't have any words of wisdom. Let's get this thing rolling. I'm so far behind. I'm never going to catch up. Anyway. Andy 0:56 So we received a couple messages. We got like 10 articles to come. And so this one came in off of the website. And this comes from Jimmy and he has a question it says I was convicted in the state of Kentucky in 1982 sentence to 20 years. At that time, there was no sex offender registry in existence, therefore, no register requirements contained in the judgment I was released on parole in 2002 and placed on the registry as a requirement of my parole for life I was violated and return to prison and thereafter served out my sentence until 212, one 2005 again, as a lifetime registering How could this not be a retroactive application of the law. In my particular situation? Am I correct in my thinking that this is in fact an expo factor violation? What can I do to correct this, please help me What is your opinion of Jimmy's situation? Well, I love the same nature of the question we need we need a good questions like that Larry 1:57 he's right. That is it is an excellent facto application of the law or where it gets a little bit murky as because there's no prohibition against ex post facto unless it's a punishment aspect, civil laws can be changed without running afoul of the Ex Post Facto Clause of the US Constitution. And there was no registry 92. So the court in 92 would not have been able to a prize him have a duty to register that didn't exist. So far, so good. When he gets out of prison, there is a registered requirement. So they that had been imposed. And he was surprised before the rolling authorities, I'm assuming he had some supervision tab because he says it was revoked. So as a condition of being in compliance with parole, you have to be in compliance with all state and federal local laws. So they told you there's a registration obligation has been imposed, that you need to comply with it. And, and so so working dice here is if he would listen to last week's episode, if he hasn't, is where it becomes problematic. It's what the registry has been found by a court to to impose punishment when it transcends those boundaries of the Kennedy Mendoza Martinez test that we talked about over the last episode, then you've got a problem that we all know that almost every registry in the country certainly more than a majority, more than half of them are beyond the point where they could be considered civil, but just because we know is punished but doesn't mean that we've proven that we show by the clearest of proof to a receptive judicial tribunal that wants to hear it. And until that, until that happens, they can, they can change the registry, they've done that all across the country. People thought they had paid your as the folks at wild and what they thought they had as the good folks at Nebraska, as the good folks at Ohio, the good folks in Indiana, the good folks at Maryland, I made on and on and on the New York State. I mean, the California California was always left has been for a long time. But Florida Alabama, I mean, I can go on and on with with registered requirements that have been increased, just merely extending the time that you're required to register something does it in and of itself, make that requirement period, if they change their tenure obligation to simply mail a four man and they said, you got to build this foreman for 50 years, you could go about your life and do what you want to live where you want to visit where you want to, but you just have to build the form and once a year for 15 years, it would be difficult to argue and convince a tribunal the desk punishment you have your car registration about once a year, both states as far as I know, Andy 4:41 some somewhere that's the disability excuse me imposes significant disability restraints, correct? Larry 4:49 Well, to me, that's the one of the most critical parts of that seven. There's there are seven factors, though. But to me would if the court says lawyers have rolled their eyes when I tell them is if the court sales were up holding this because it doesn't impose any disabilities or restraints and offenders free to live and work where they want to travel? It will it seems logical to me then if it's doing those things that the court said its constitutional because it doesn't do these things. It only seems rational that once it's doing those things, that that would be very problematic, because that was the basis which the court said it was okay. Because it doesn't do these things. To me. It's not a big leap to make that if it's doing those things, it has now transformed from what was relatively benign to something that's very restrictive, and that's where you run into the problem. But you commit a crime, you're supposed to know what's your punishments going to be it can't be altered, but meddling in a forum. Arguably, it's not a whole lot of that's not that's not that much punishment is sitting in a form but when you have to meddle in the form every three months, and you have to go in and personally I mean, not melon before, but you have to go person every three buzz, you have to pay a big fee and you're restricted before you you can live a restricted type jobs you can hold Right, right, then you have a whole lot more disabilities and restraints to argue about that that they didn't have back in 2003 when the court looked at the Alaska scheme at that time. Unknown 6:15 Gotcha. Do you want to move on to the next the reading? Well, Larry 6:18 Jimmy wants to know, what can be done about this? And the answer is as bad as it sounds, is that it's it's going to require additional litigation, I believe Kentucky falls within the Sixth Circuit, we've got the favorable decision out of the six circuit does versus Snyder. So it's going to require some litigation, well put together litigation, well funded litigation, because the state is not going to concede that they're registered as Peter did. They're going to argue whatever difference they can find between the Michigan scheme and what they haven't Kentucky, they're going to say, well, hell, they do that in Michigan. We don't do this here. So therefore, so you can talk Jonas, you need to be prepared and our souls always resist up to good litigation in terms of sharing our limited resources, we are receptive to hearing good a good cause litigation, but unfortunately, the offenders are going to have to pony up and do a well funded well prepared case and quit doing this on the cheap and hoping that the public defender can do it through a criminal case. We need to do a declaratory action or evidence is brought in experts is brought in to testify. But the but the but the period of aspects of the registry does that's the way it's done correctly. I just I just confirmed Kentucky isn't six. I thought my recollection was they are there. Andy 7:35 Yeah. Yeah. So Jeff has told us that because Jeff, the part of his question sequence has been about the Sixth Circuit. This comes from a person named Matthew left a comment on the website it says these podcasts or educational but I have to ask why it ends there. Why does our soul and it sister groups want to keep registrants divided, isolated and powerless, nothing ever changes until groups are able to unite coming together under a common cause, with all our voices being heard yet, nor saw only desires to be the only voice heard or the voices of their hand pick guys, I see all fighting for registration to end for minor offenses, but too scared to denounce the inhumane punishment for most others. Excuse me, I'm not funded by no telling how many thousands of dollars and I have no desire to control the narrative. I am one man that got tired of us being a divided hated group with no voice getting told the public isn't ready for us to be treated as humans, similar to the Jews and African American 60 years ago. No more excuses, we need to come together and stop this insanity list is website. I foot the bill. No one helps me with it. And I no longer asked because they didn't care to respond. It's paid for one reason for us to come together and not be forced into silence by fear of further humiliation. We can overcome these things. But we have to do it together. Everyone deserves a voice, our voices our power to end this treatment, we get one of the things that I said in the response to him, You was like, do not make the distinction that this podcast is nor saw. or excuse me, don't confuse that this isn't that this is in our soul. I mean, we just we both volunteer for them, we both work for them. But this is an independent production. So don't lump registry matters in with any other organization. And what we are trying to do, I'm pretty sure that Larry and I speak from the same point of view that you could make a constitutional registry. However, the registry as it is ineffective, it's unconstitutional and shouldn't be there. That is the message that we're trying to relay how we get there. That's an entirely that's a that's a discussion for each specific case along the way. But I just wanted to bring that up. And like I said, if we want to drop it from the show, we can, but wanted to make sure that that got addressed again, because this has come up before that we shouldn't be saying Marsala believes this or that we are not saying our soul believes this or that we are independent of that. Larry 9:57 Well, I find this this exchange very, very disturbing because nothing could be further from the truth. And what he says why does an arsenal and it sister groups want to keep registrants divided I can't speak for the sister groups divided, isolated and powerless, that is dead is just so ridiculous meds absurd Andy 10:20 that Larry 10:20 I don't know what would possess a person to say such a thing. Andy 10:24 I know for one advocate that is that is in favor of some form of registry. And it's not a logical reasoning behind why she wants to have some kind of registry. But that said, that's the only person that I know of that is in favor of some kind of registry, everybody else is interested in some level of total abolishment. But is that practical is a conversation that we have on a regular basis? Larry 10:48 Well, well, well, but but to this point of likes, I can't speak for other organizations. But I know that normal doesn't want to keep registrants divided, isolated and powerless, we do just the opposite. We try new power, we try to unite registrants What I'm saying is just so distant from the truth and that yet in our soul desires to be the only voice heard really but bother handpick guys are our organization dorsal which I am on the board of directors, we are the only organization that allows for input into our who gets to be the or the board of directors. And in fact, this year, it's going to be even more open, it's already been very open for the affiliates have have have, have chosen two thirds of our directors, and it's going to be even more open. And in the coming process where where the or the members themselves will actually choose who's on the board of directors after they've gone through a screening process to make sure that they possess the requisite skills to serve on the board of directors, which all organizations all businesses do that but but normal does not try to keep people silence. They do not try to do what he says, I resent that it's just so long. True. And I don't know who the person is, but whoever it is, is totally misinformed. And it sounds like that will have an axe to grind against our soul. Unknown 12:05 It does sound a roughly like that Larry 12:09 in terms of the the registry. I don't know who he's talking about. It's not us. We don't say we support any type of registry, right? What we're talking about is what let me diagram this carefully. for for for whoever This is. There's things that you don't like that are not unconstitutional, just because you don't like something that does not magically make what you don't like unconstitutional. And if you're going to try to solve something, but the courts you have to only bring things to the courts that are unconstitutional, because the courts are not super legislators, they are the interpreters of what the people have done through the elected process, and a registry could be created that would not inflict any punishment and would be very constitutional. That's a separate question whether or not it would be effective and would it be wise public policy if you don't like a public policy that doesn't make that policy unconstitutional? And and people somehow don't understand that I don't like the fact that marijuana is highly regulated as it is that doesn't make the regulation of marijuana unconstitutional, Andy 13:23 right. does it know Larry 13:27 so the registration in and of itself, the mere act of registering a person through a process is not unconstitutional, and somehow know that that gets translated it on for registration? Well, I am not for registries I'm telling you. If you want to make constitutional arguments, you can't win on that one. You have to argue the each registry individually has to be analyzed to figure out if it is punitive, because you can register people in non punitive processes for the day will come that any type of public registration will be deemed punitive. But we've got to convince the court that we can show evidence that merely putting a person's information on the internet is punitive. We're not there yet, we are dirt big businesses making gobs and gobs of money collecting publicly funded records, they're open to the public and they're they're putting them online and they're selling them and making a fortune and that's what we're up against. They're not going to give up their baby What is that? My life.com? Andy 14:33 Yes, one of them, right? Larry 14:35 Yes, they make gobs of money doing that and they're going to have our First Amendment and everything else that they have the right to do this with these records are public so but like that the person is so misinformed about what normal is think it's got an axe to grind it, but it's just not true. And I'm sad to hear that because we're not trying to silence people. I've heard of criticism about the about the debt circuit case of the of the driver's license market. Okay, the name of the cases escaping me. And in our amicus brief, we said that that they could have more narrowly tailored it well, but that that has to be illegal argument that you make because something some things that are not permissible, can be permissible if they're narrowly tailored. So from a legal point, you can't say that there's no there's it's not permissible to ever mark a document. That's an absurd ridiculous argument. But Mark documents all the time we work documents all the time, but the government issues so simply saying that marking a document is unconstitutional. That is ridiculous to say. So you have to concede to the court if you're going to have credibility as as an attorney that there are markings that would be acceptable it depends on whether they are narrowly tailored to a specific situation that would be within the realm of acceptability and what the marketing is but but they said well as you should be if it's considered what yeah well if you don't want to be considered a credible tryna you just go ahead Okay, what you do you show us how it's done, and we'll quickly follow up for you, Andy 16:13 right. And I knew that I knew that was coming as part I mean, one of the reasons why I want to bring this up is here is yet another person saying we will do it my way. And I know that you would have a frickin caravan of people following you, if you figured out the way to do it in your state, which I don't know which state that is. But if you figured out how to do it in your state, then we would have 49 other states that would try and figure out how to replicate what you're doing. But there again, it's not something that we can just bring the whole thing down in one fell swoop we would still have 50 or 51 of these he has one and maybe the territories out of the room. So we got 50 whatever let's call it 60 registries that we'd have to go fight Larry 16:54 well but but that's not what the what the people that are living this horror want to hear. They want to think that there's something magic bullet out there that will in the registry, there is no magic bullet. If they were we would fire that magic bullet. We don't want any additional days of suffering but there isn't a magic bullet there isn't it it's like the death penalty even that has not been a magic bullet right people have been trying to abolish the death penalty for how many decades now you guys states it's the last civilized country on planet earth to be putting people to death Andy 17:29 yes Larry 17:30 and and it's been a slow fo evolutionary process to get this country two words Many states have a bullshit has it I can't give exact count but you It has been an incremental thing we put putting the liquid executed juveniles, we put executing people mental disabilities, that there's debate now about how how physically disabled capacity and person is before they wouldn't be eligible for capital punishment. It's not magic to abolish bad public policy, it's not magic, we have to do that with who we elect. And I've got a suggestion for you that wrote this, why don't you put voting for the wrong people that would go a long ways Andy 18:10 the only the only level of sympathy to to support this person's comments is that, you know, we've been doing this podcast for 1716 months or so. And, and even still my advocacy start with our soul. And I think 2015 of just like reading and trying to figure out and understand what's going on of how much my thought processes have changed, talking to you talking to others, listening to the various phone calls, going to conferences, and so forth of you know, there's, there's this whole foundation of like, well, it shouldn't be this way. But that's not how you make a change. Fine. It shouldn't be. But this whole thing is a massive education process to, and I can only speak for myself to say that this is a massive learning curve, to try and learn how these things are in place, and what it takes to change them what is legit, what could be gotten away with what might not be. So I do sympathize with the individual just a little bit, but it seems like he's coming after us to some degree. And coming after the various advocacy groups with a certain level of misinformation to Larry 19:16 Well, I agree with him on one. One thing, for sure. And a lot of people can't even agree on this point. The registry is the problem. If we didn't register people for sexual offences, we wouldn't have all these extra things that they do. The registry is the evil the fact that we label people with us, and we put them in this category. If we can get rid of the if we can get rid of the registry, life is going to get a lot better. That would be the cure all end all because we would still have the fact that public conviction records live on and on and on with, with, like my life, and all these places out there where you can find People's History at the click of a mouse. But it's the beginning, we're doing a lot of incremental steps, we've got to expand from building our budgets like this year, it's actually in all likelihood going to pass probably not an exact same form it was introduced it and we don't have the right wing fanatic governor, prosecutor that's going to be telling if we can get it to the finish line this year, there's a good chance we'll get a signature from the governor, which will help address the problem of the records because that will take a lot of records outside the purview of the of the prying eyes, particular as a host that result in a conviction. But even those that did result in conviction, after specified amount of years. So, but but that, but the registry is a big part of the front. A lot of people hire felons, but they won't her personal, non registered, correct their their their patients goes away when it comes to registering. But yes, we're very, very good about hard balance. Not that kind of felon. Yeah, not that guy. So, so. So I agree with him to to register is the problem. Andy 20:48 Sure. And silver bullet? Right, right. Right. Right. Well, okay. So, so we covered that for like, 10 or so minutes. I just wanted to make sure that that air got clear, because that one that bothered me this morning when I was sitting at Starbucks reading stuff. And then moving on, we got an email message from Mike at registry matters cast at gmail. com says hello. I wanted to know, what I wanted to know is these registry laws were made because they thought the recidivism rate was 80%. And since the person who did the study has since retracted his study, and has done another study, and his new study shows the recidivism rate is under 5%. And every single state in the US has done a study on recidivism. And the US government has done a study and every single study has shown the recidivism rate is under 5%. And I mean, every single study is under 5%. So that being the case, why not go after all of that and get the registry taken down. And that recidivism rate is lower than any other crime. So why are we walking on eggshells to get this done, the government doesn't want this to happen. Because every person on the registry registry can sue in every state they live in. So I hope you redirect your focus in this direction. Because if you don't, I'm going to put together a group to collect all of these studies and blasted in the media and the government I hope you do go in this direction. And if you do, I would like to join the cause. Thank you. Larry 22:10 It's a lot of studies well as don't even know where to start the studies people do. It's not a big part of my argument. I don't I don't go there. But I'm just a mere one little mortal who who advocates in this arena. I just use my experience of he's right that the recidivism is not anywhere near what it was was thought to be. and policymakers often often now though, that the recidivism rate is far lower than that three 5% is commonly known but I keep telling you why don't you run length of a football field let me put 100 bullets and there's only three of them more live rounds would you like this you did that you Andy 22:52 absolutely bring it I can run yeah I can dodge Larry 22:56 it it's just not a powerful argument I have not not had anyone say oh well yes now that is I know it's only three of the people out of 100 it's got to do a sex offense well of course we want abolish the registry I've never bought it I think of that reaction you get the reaction you get as well it's lower than what we thought but still these crimes are so serious and so heinous and so horrible that if it saves one it's worth it that's what they will say this is not what Larry saying this is what they say right and the statistics don't win you over and they do have their that's one of the most common ones the other one is the sex offenses are so vastly otter report that me to mobile will tell you that that we're only capturing a tip of the iceberg of the sex offenders are out there they're being committed and how many sex offenders all to be in the system and if we had more reporting we would have we would have different that a lot of recidivism just want to report it welcome him with all sincerity to take those studies to go to whatever capital he said make those arguments and if they work will quickly follow right behind you do the same thing it hasn't proven to work for me I have not had anybody have any traction on saying that they can get anybody who wants to sponsor an abolition of the registry because recidivism slow so the offer I commonly makers if you show ourselves dog will quickly follow suit Andy 24:24 I'm with you and then I mean you know then he also brings up the su parte so Sue in every state and we can talk about specific the ACLU case in Michigan that's a seven figure lawsuit so now you're talking about 50 states having seven figure lawsuits that would be a mountain of cash Larry 24:45 it has a lot of these cases they'll strike down the crapper I was dealt with I meant to bring some figures on on a sex offense challenge that the law firm had invested into it and they got nowhere and how much that the billable hours and how much out of pocket costs they're going to write off but these these challenges often go down the crapper with those success. And so you're, you're looking at horrendous costs. That's the thing that keeps holding us back. Now, Norful does have a small amount of cash on hand. We're trying to be so frugal, because it's so hard to accumulate cash and make sure that we deployed in the best opportunities we can. But you're going to see probably more and more action as we get more and more cash available. But we don't have the treasure of the United States. So the treasury of the of the whatever state behind us, we have a small group of donors who are extremely generous, who give us money. And they asked us to use it as best we can as wisely as we can. And we're very conservative with deploying that cash. We don't just say, well, we got a few thousand dollars, let's just slow it down here. But plops down their throats that these things at the wall and hope it sticks. Andy 25:52 Because would be right. Because from a strategic point of view, you definitely like you would want to have the most effective challenge go through so that you could then use that as a publicity campaign to try and draw more funds. So you don't want to just like willy nilly Lily, throw money around where it might just go down the toilet, like you just said, Larry 26:11 well, there's some people out there who would advocate that they say, doing something is better than doing nothing? Well, under the current management, we don't adhere to that. But car management be changed, right? If you don't like normal management present yourself through the process to be on the board, and you can get us old fogies off the board, and you can come in and run Norful in a way that you see fit. Because we don't have a closed system. And I'm not going to name the other organizations. But I can tell you, as far as I know, we are the only one of the national, the so called national organizations that do not have a closed process, we're outside, forget it, I can speak for my state entirely, we have a completely open process, they states get into fights with other disease, and they form new organizations, right, right. And it executes delivery Justice Coalition, all you have to do to be on the board of directors as to be a member of the coalition and be in good standing and not be able to supervision and if you can say that you agree with our mission statement of values, which is also can be changed by the board. And it can be voted on by the membership. But as long as you agree to that, you can plop yourself on the board and you can change the way we run the Lj See, you don't need to go out and start a new organization. And I don't know what he's talking about. Because normal is very welcoming of duplicate, it's just that people don't want to put the hours into it. And the time the expectation of a board member we just actually revised this at the at the strategic planning retreat we did earlier in January. But we're asking people to commit to five hours a week of volunteer time plus to attend conferences, at least twice a year out of their out of their own pocket. And that's an awful lot to expect of people to work five hours a week to tend to tell but the board meetings to serve on at least two committees and to attend at least two major events that you're all that out, we do fund the representation like to add so until the natural but as far as attending the conference, the board members are older Oh, just like everybody else. Andy 28:16 So and let me just, you know, make the statement one more time we are not in ourselves, we are not registry matters is not a publication in our cell. It's not it's affiliated only by friendship with Marcel because you and I both volunteer they afforded me the opportunity there for us to the opportunity to use their marketing channels so that you may have found this podcast through an email from Nars saw but that is just as a favor and it doesn't represent an affiliation we're just like friends you know something along those lines that's that is the affiliation we own ourselves Larry 28:49 maybe what a run that at each podcast Andy 28:51 I know we've talked about that before because this This issue has come up before and I you know so we'll get Rick to record something kind of kind of sexy sounding Larry 29:00 that this is a this is an independent production and that when I when I speak on behalf of our soul I make that clear but otherwise I'm speaking on behalf of me Andy 29:09 yep you are the Larry Unknown 29:11 all Andy 29:11 right well you ready for some articles? I hope so cool. This first one comes from the eagle calm and judge dismissed as a lawsuit alleging police school district contributed to students suicide this comes up with where's this even out of this is Napier North High School. Where did this happen? Where did this happen? I forgot where it happened. I think it was Larry 29:34 a little boy Andy 29:36 okay. Could be Illinois. And a kid gets he was a 16 year old kid and he allegedly had a naughty video of him and his girlfriend doing the nasty and a lot the nasty horizontal Mambo the slip in between the sheets. I mean and yeah, I see. I see all of the things that you tell me on the phone and private they're coming out. But I'm I'm I'm a avoiding saying them. And so he allegedly had a video on his phone. And when they said hey, we need to talk to you. And you might be in some trouble. He goes and finds the nearest tall bridge. And he handles himself off of the bridge and kills himself. And the ironic thing out of it is when they found the video, it was like all fuzzy they couldn't make anything out. You could hear some things but you they're like they couldn't actually make any prosecution out of him having anything like a child porn or anything of that nature. But ultimately, the judge says, Hey, they were just doing their job and what I captured. So it was judge Andrea would also wrote that while the interrogation tactics used by the deans and police were harsh and aggressive, they were nonetheless ordinary police interrogation tactics. Larry 30:47 I found the article traveling Andy, I've got the parents not being there. Right. There's a long standing tradition. I don't know if it's required, but certainly traditional that a police interrogation of a minor is always comforted by guarding a guardian or or parents. So I found that very, very troubling that that does happen. The court not granting any relief I didn't have enough time did even seal civil complaint. So I don't know exactly what their complaints but what I've referred by I said early, just because you don't like something doesn't mean there's a constitutional violation, you have to plead your case will sickly and you have to tell the court exactly what what was violated. And on the face of the pleading, according to the judge, although it was disturbing the outcome that they deplete anything that they can prevail on a trial, right. And I'm not in position to say that, but as far as I know, Naperville lives in Illinois. Andy 31:45 Yes, it is. It says it's new Chicago. Larry 31:48 Yeah. So this is this is very troubling. Know, 16 year old lost his life for all the adults out there listening to us. Just remember you did that naughty to when you were 16? If you could. Can you imagine? Can you imagine how you would react it if someone had called you to the office and threatened you with what they threaten the 16 year old for you doing something that's biologically fairly normal? I think. Can you imagine what you had been asking that teenager to carry the weight of that I mean, he would have understood the sex offender registry. But what he would have understood it's not a good thing. I've understood that big prosecutors not a good thing. And this would have been something that would have been way over anybody that 16 year old, big able to process and handle I can tell the people in Naperville, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Yep. Even though the judge didn't find it, you ought to be evaluating how you're handling this and you ought to make changes before because it said it may appeal so the attorney Terry Eckel, so they may appeal to the Seventh Circuit. But even if they don't appeal, you ought to fix this, you ought not require another 60 year old Luther life. This is this is tragic. It is pretty sad that just by their pressure that they applied to them, they crack the 16 year old and Andy 33:08 I find a loose relationship that when we cover the article last week about the woman could consent to sex with a police officer cuz she was in custody, I find this to be somewhat related, that when you put this child in custody, who we have deemed to be inadequate, like they're not an adult, not inadequate, but they are not as mature. They're not, you know, they haven't been trained these tactics of interrogation and stuff, they broke the kid just by bringing up that he might be in some level of trouble and they cracked him to the point that he went and talked himself off a bridge for being in that much trouble they they scared him that bad Larry 33:44 it's let's say it was a whole accounts article was was was at UPS to sending otter type student but but Naperville, this is this is sad that you would not be shocked even if the court wasn't shocked. Talk the school board, the school administrators, you should be shocked and you should make the changes to make sure this doesn't happen again. Why do you need a court to tell you what you need to do? It's like shackling a woman giving birth. Why do you need the state legislature to tell you that you can't do that, right? You don't need the court to tell you this was wrong, you know, this is wrong, don't do it anymore. make changes so that another 60 year old is never interrogated, and threatened with a sex offender registry without a parent or guardian without any legal counsel. And, and without any follow up. I mean, it the very minimum when he left the office, I shouldn't ask it was the okay. Andy 34:35 Yeah, sure. Yeah. But how do they let them out of their sight to that would be another? I mean, if they were going to interrogate him, then how did they let him out of out of their site? Larry 34:43 Well, that's not clear the story, but they probably going back class you'll be hearing from us later. It's probably but Andy 34:48 they did you know, when he marched himself right to the door. He marched them so right to the door and went and taught himself a bridge, which is pretty gruesome, that would not be a good way to go. Larry 34:57 Well, it was a parking structure, I think, right? That's right. So a dip at this this is this was tragic. It says a little something about who we are in this country, particularly you people at Naperville. Are you going to do anything about this. Yes, Unknown 35:14 you ought to be shocked, Andy 35:15 but he was a sex offender. And we need to get those people off this earth. Oh, Larry 35:18 well, that they bought some would say Andy 35:21 yes. All right. And moving on to the article from the daily reporter changes in sex offender registration challenge. This one is kind of a neat article if I recall, right, and this is a challenge stating that sex offender registration law in 2006 and 2011 which were held unconstitutional in federal court but I did want to ask you the specific question it says down in the article it says the position of the Office of Attorney General bill Schuh it perhaps was to require each individual effective to file suit against the state he claimed that does v Snyder suit was not a class action therefore it did not apply to all Unknown 36:02 is that true that is correct Andy 36:05 so then now okay all right but Larry 36:08 but the question is is that the moral thing to do is legally the correct thing to do legally legally they could get relief I don't know last time I talked to Michigan people that hadn't given those people really yet for bridge right Andy 36:21 right Larry 36:22 now but more like you know that when you put that hand on that Bob and use floor that you were going to uphold the law to the best your ability you remember that Yeah, well the court the highest court that you can air this thing to has told you that the US Supreme Court said the Sixth Circuit got it right we don't want to review it you know that what you're doing is wrong from a moral sense but for the legal sense I could say well bring it on that's why they steal your Michigan's bring in their class action lawsuit to try to bring relief to everybody Andy 36:56 so Adobe cider since it wasn't class action was just that ended visual or individuals and it then only applies to them But doesn't that then set the precedent for all the others to go well here's the documentation that says that this is the same thing so it does that just by default doesn't that make it apply but you still have a Larry 37:15 podcast oh you're sitting out to litigate but but it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna be a much faster litigation because the precedents already set and the six dark it's not likely to reverse itself at one panel will reverse and other panels work so even if the state appeal to give have the same issues that they're brought in class act on another three judge panel is not going to do the work of the three judge panel this inside of this so therefore the same outcomes coming so what has to happen is the people that pride themselves on being fiscally responsible conservative, low government people and I criticize them last week on the podcast the host people are driving up the cost to the feminists indefensible registry Michigan rather than changing the law. So you got an attorney general who's fighting tooth and nail agent visual and it's a it's got to pay out a whole bunch more money, legal fees, they they series can be funded better and better for for the foreseeable future, when you could just do the right thing, but they're not gonna do the right thing because they're just not going to. Andy 38:14 So what about how does this apply to they're going to do the thing until they're told to stop? Haven't they then been told to stop Larry 38:22 what they were told to stop against those individuals, Andy 38:24 just those individuals, so then we still have to then fight this individually. So the other 40,000 not I'm not trying to exclude the ACLU class action challenge. But then the 40,000 people Michigan have to then go hire an attorney and bring the challenge to gum up the legal system to that degree. Larry 38:40 Well, that's that's why we have class actions right misunderstands class actions, sub sub actions are not well suited for class certification sub are this is what where it's already got a pellet precedent driving the train and the issues that that the people that are impact it would be similar judicial economy would be achieved by class action. So this would be be one where it should be okay. And it would should not be too difficult to get the class certified, which you have to you don't just stamp everybody thanks. Well, you got to get on red rubber stamp or your class action and you go on and Well, that doesn't make a class action what makes the class actual does have a commonality of claims. And a number of factors that accord evaluate whether they whether this law firm is capable of stay in communication and accurately representing the class if they were certified and they sell you would probably be beat that criteria they be they would be deemed as capable of representing the interests of the class and they would probably certify the class but as a general rule, conservatives rail against class actions, they, they tend to not want them, they try to do everything they can to diminish class action certifications, because like when disputes with employers, they want the individual to have to bring the case because I know it's much more prohibited for an individual. If you get robbed for couple hundred dollars or $500 at your job, it's a lot harder for you to break it individual action, but it is for for for a group of people that has has to say beef about whatever the case may be. So conservative generally don't like class actions, right? Unless it's something that they're trying to think typically, they typically don't like class actions because it makes it more efficient for people to use the justice system. And this is like, say, my view this will probably be certified. I'm not staying on top of what's going on in Michigan. But I know that the ACLU was go to file a class action as 1000 action a C class certification and they're going to try to provide this relief to everybody it's just a matter of time but see that matter of time could be the death of an offender Sure, Andy 40:44 sure. Larry 40:45 That's That's the sad thing about this is is people say well, it's only one extra day but but but I talked about getting you out of jail fence turns one or clients out of jail as fast as we get out of jail was the one day if you had been New Mexico prison on February 28, 1980, and you've got released you wouldn't have been to the dentist prison right on February 29, 1980s. It took the life so 33 inmates Andy 41:09 right yeah sure. Oh that could be a miss job opportunity it could be missed relationship it could be a mist housing opportunity it could be a missed event at your kids school Larry 41:18 or it could be a project I'll come in through your window by somebody who finds your the Andy 41:21 registry correct yeah all of the above Larry 41:23 it's so all this all this stubbornness on behalf of the State of Michigan is putting people in danger causing people untold suffering for for what I mean I can't speak to what his motivation for I can speculate probably because he thinks that the public's behind him He probably thinks he gets going to get more votes and more support for dard about the cost of the human human cost and the monetary costs because that's all it into that from the taxpayers I mean if you have a state of Michigan the spending billions and billions of dollars a few million dollars in legal fees really it's not noticeable Andy 41:56 so let's go dinosaurs Larry 41:57 in Michigan you listeners in Michigan and just remember you elected this Attorney General and and and you could unelected Andy 42:06 right Larry 42:07 well at some point I don't know what it's like a list you know what he said right up at the top they voted for him Andy 42:14 and then moving on to an article from the Columbia paper com Or I guess it's just Columbia paper com This article is titled officials question impact of sex offender registry and there is some significant debate going back and forth between now let me just let me just like tell you this if you end up reading this article one person that they spoke to a Scott Thomas and the other individual they spoke to was a woman with the last name of Scott Gerber to go where to go anyway it's a little bit confusing because you know they'll say Scott this Scott that you like we which one said it but isn't this whole like what they're talking about in the article is about a due process to process violation. Although courts determine guilt administrators determine which level someone found guilty of a sex offenses assigned. And there are problems with process of assigning levels, said Ian Crimmins and assistant public defender for Columbia County decisions made by administrators need less proof than those made in law courts. Furthermore, administrative decisions are hard to overturn at a legal level. All right. What I I needed to read that to remind me that your due process happens when you are in the court system. But when you get leveled we think we've talked about it is not always the same kind of due process system. It's not it's not by your peers, it could be based on a whole bunch of factors that do or don't apply and they even said in the article some job applications no longer ask Have you ever been convicted of a crime However, in an interview someone was asked Are you on any registry that's something you just said a few minutes ago this is a an interesting article where people are pushing back on the effectiveness of the registry as a whole Larry 43:56 lot there's a lot in this article because level systems work differently and state sub are purely office based. So the legislators themselves have have said if you did this particular offense it's level water tier one and and some states have a risk based system where they go through a process when New York actually has that respect system so you're loving it's done in a different process that New York but I do think it goes through a judicial process if I remember right we've had this little previous podcast with if you get if you get leveled wrong there there should be a new process for you to argue that in the states where it's based on risk if it's based on the offense it it becomes more difficult because unless you have a state offense it's pretty straightforward right if the legislature he's he's a level one level two level three that's what they are Andy 44:47 yes Larry 44:49 but what what what do you when you have announced later because they have to do some kind of translation which is what we've talked about all the situation North Carolina with with the recent case at Paul duplicate what the Meredith case Okay, so so but but what what what are we trying to answer first on all this plethora of different things in here, because the level can have a lot of impact on what restrictions you have imposed on you what reporting requirements you have, how long you would have to register I mean, level can be very important. And sub sub jurisdiction certainly. And Andy 45:21 the first paragraph the articles was what I should have read at the beginning. It says ways to reduce the chance of ex convicts returning to crime after completing their sentences, including helping them get secure housing, secure income, helpful education and counseling. Scott Thomas, division director, the Mental Health Association of Columbia green County's told a meeting of reentry at Columbia January night, that's what the premise of the article is, in that all of the the disabilities and restraints i think is probably just the best way to put it of all the registry things prevent many people from having secure housing income and all that stuff. So then the article goes on to discuss all the different impact that the registry does have on people trying to not go back to prison for having to commit a crime. Larry 46:07 Well, yes, I like say the restrictions go up and they still states like our friends in Arkansas, we can talk about later in the podcast, if you're a level three and four, you have residence restrictions, or if you're level one and two, you don't Yeah, Arkansas signs you a recess is a process to go through a through a process of going through their risk assessment assessment board in Pine Bluff, and they they say it's it's far from perfect process. But there really is a process and it is available, but your restrictions go up if they get it wrong, right. And if you're level one in Arkansas, last time I checked that they're not even visible on the internet. Okay. Now, the sheriff's in some instances, created their own websites outside of the state central repository. And I put people all over that are not displayed by the by the by the state central registry, which is another tragedy that needs to be litigated, haven't been able to do so. Because we don't have any money. Yeah, sure. Or not enough money. Andy 47:02 I just I don't know how practical it is. There's even a sentence in it says in jail guys who went to the sex offender workshop. Everybody knew who they were. That's a form of stigma and marginalization. I put like, everybody goes to some kind of class, I don't know how you like, I mean, you're going to be in class with someone else. So they're going to know and they're going to spread the word perhaps it's like, I don't, I don't know how you keep people from being identified, marked for the various kinds of classes or whatever that they go into, to, to remove that whole thing of some kind of stigma. Stigma and marginalization. I don't know how to practically pull that one off. Larry 47:42 It's a tough one because although I've never done present time, I know that prisons have a have networks that you would not believe in terms of their ability to get information about the Andy 47:51 certainly I mean, yeah, you just talk to your family at home and they look people up on the internet and find out what your crime was. I mean, that's not you know, it's not rocket science Larry 47:57 they like that give people brand new identities and put them on interstate compact and other state presence, what they have what they have safety issues, and magically, within a short period of time, the people the new state, figure out who they sure yeah, I don't know. Andy 48:12 Well, then their connections inside like the orderly room and whatnot, you know, or wherever, you know, whatever your terms are, for the people that work in the personnel, whatever you want to call the, you know, people, people that work in the records office, maybe even as orderlies, they get kind of cozy with the staff in there and they'll find out who people are they get rosters I know right so Larry 48:31 it makes get cozy with staff I Unknown 48:33 know it happens it's hard to believe right oh that is shock yeah go ahead no that's pretty much all I got Larry 48:43 that is shocking to think that he wants to be attracted to get and get close side is that's kind of how they have sex with her and custody sometimes which I was surprised with it you I was expecting you to give me two or three hate emails about what I said last week about Andy 48:58 Nope. Nothing came in about that we can hardly about other kinds of all kinds of other things and Larry 49:03 was expected about that because I don't please let me just take this time to clarify. That wasn't the plan for tonight. I'm not saying that when someone is in your custody and control whether they be in police custody, or any type of place where you have control. I'm not saying that it's okay. There are times when you should bow out of having sex what I am saying it's just because they're in within your control of some type that doesn't make it rape, rape is a horrible crime or a person has been physically violated against their will to be a rape victim would be outraged by calling something great that was not rape. Maybe I'm wrong. But I know that I would be if I had someone physically invade my body with whatever they inserted me. And then someone who started smooching on each other because they were working together I've been working together but in a prison unit where someone has to be working there, and they found each other attractive to call that rape right to me, is absurd. Yeah, it is inappropriate, the person should be taken out of the prison setting, they can't have their eyes on the candy. But it's like the Taylor buckle up in Connecticut, the word that 18 year old starter and went home, but the teacher appeal was like 24, or whatever he was, that was great. That was a case where it was an error in judgment that could have been handled administratively where they could have called her and said, well, effective next week, your your paycheck will be sent to Baylor Elementary, if you'd like to continue get paid on school district, you'll show up over there. And you won't say anything about the transfer, you apparently cannot keep your eyes all your hands off of, of these young men. And that's not appropriate in this setting. And therefore, we're going to remove that temptation from you. But she did not commit rape. She had an affair that was inappropriate. It should not have involved prosecution. It is not rape, right. I agree with you. Andy 51:07 I agree. You know, and it's a distinction in terms specifically, I don't think the dude feels bad about the situation. He got to, I don't want to use the crude terms. He had a relationship with a pretty good looking woman. And so she had a relationship with a pretty good looking dude. Right? So like, you know, the, the, the inappropriate part becomes where she was a teacher, but she wasn't even his teacher. Right, Larry 51:32 right. But, but we don't want we don't want that goal. But But like I say, That's not right, right? I agree. Because they were both consenting adults, it was a lapse in judgment, right? And if a police officer puts a gun to your head and says this thing, I'm gonna play Russian Roulette with you. That would be right, that would definitely be raped. But if, if, if it's shy of that, and I can't draw the magic line of work it is. But consensual sex is not right between adults. I make sure I put that in there. I'm talking about adults. I'm not talking about a 1314 year old. Yeah, I'm talking about if a 3040 year old and a 14 year old or 30 year old person. That's not that's not the same comparison. But when we talk about adults, you can't call rape something. And that's what New York I believe that stores in New York they're going to call anything or there's a fourth person has any type of custody next expanded custody, not just to be in a jail facility, but at any type or they're where they're going to attain situation. They're going to call that rape. I just don't see it that way. But I expected to get tons of criticism for that one. Probably Andy 52:42 All right. But I didn't Well, now that you've doubled down on it, so maybe it'll come in this time Larry 52:49 I picked up now we're going to we're going to the 50th state. Yes, Andy 52:53 we are. Unless it's the 52nd state. But that's another conversation articles from the registry report. And it is about homeless. That title of it is Hawaii's homeless registrants and it says legislators in Hawaii are considering a bill that would make it illegal for any person on the sexual offense registry to reside within 1000 feet of any school child care facility or playground or Park. And there's a funny little should say funny, but you know, funny and sad kind of way. But if you draw 1000 foot circle around every Park, school playground, daycare facility, blah, blah, blah in the state to create a safety zone, you will be effectively driving them into the sea or back to prison. You know, Hawaii is not really a big place, but they still have parks and probably, you know, like half of Hawaii, I'm just going to guess is probably a state park because of, you know, just being a really picturesque place, and it's probably protected and state Parkland. Yeah, you might end up making almost the entire state and unlivable place. But the article cites a whole bunch of statistics, I'm just going to assume that the author has his stats right? That Hawaii's criminal population crimes compared to the rest of the United States, it's about half of what the other states have the the national average. So this seems to be just a solution in search of a problem ultimately, why like, you know, we have a homeless problem problem in the United States as it is, and this is just going to make people have a really severe homeless problem. Larry 54:28 Well, it does seem to be a solution in search of a problem because article says, despite the fact that these media claims at 28 of Hawaii sex right a registrants, we're moving parts of truth of the matter as long as residents are required to give law enforcement an address and relative and it's relatively common for, for residents to designate it apart, designate apart Hawaii is one of our more expensive state right it's it receives a lot of tourism dollars and things tend to be expensive because the import that travel distance of things have to go to be like TriCity rates are high their housing costs as high everything has to be important practically from the mainland as an expensive place to live. And and homelessness is is has been for all about adult life I've been aware of homelessness that has been a problem in Hawaii so I'm thinking if you compound that with being on the registry what what detriment it does in the rest of the country? Why would it be any less detrimental in Hawaii that you would that you would have encampments of people in the registry that can't find any place to live and can't be avoided but what are they supposed to do Unknown 55:33 I wonder Unknown 55:34 this question all the time I wonder that all the time what ultimately do you want people to do Larry 55:39 you know this is one of the things we're we're so detached from it from the mainland here is like if Colorado needed a hand I could I could get up there an eight hour ride fly even faster but the cost of getting Hawaii at the time you like certainly can't drive it's like it's it's difficult to to to fight back in that situation we have hoped it rational sane this prevails and the least the factor discussing this about it might be a subtle shift sorts of a problem may be able to turn them from from putting these restrictions in place that make people feel good but actually make the problem worse ready to be a part of registry Andy 56:15 matters get links at registry matters dot CEO if you need to be all discreet about it, contact them by email registry matters because at your treatment class about the podcast, we want to send out a big heartfelt support for those on the registry. Keep biting. Without you, we can't succeed you make it possible. This article comes from the island now and this article is titled child victims act passes extending opportunities for survivors to file charges. They say that the victims advocates have been trying for more than a decade to bring this bill to fruition which would be one thing that we could like kind of circle back around on how hard it is to get legislation to pass this seems like it would be wickedly popular but it still took a decade for to get through. But the law allows survivors to file criminal charges until age 28 and civil charges until age 55 and have people that are you know if you're 15 years old and your step dad does some naughty things to you You have until you're 55 to file a civil claim against him um I see how this got where it is I'm kind of surprised it took 10 years the one thing that I will I do kind of want to I want you to speak to is that soon as I can find it said the republican health senate spent years successfully blocking legislation like the child victims Act and the Reproductive Health Act which past January 22 and codified Roe vs. Wade abortion provisions and state law so it was republicans that helped prevent this from getting there and now I think New York just hire have voted in all Democrats. And that's how the legislation went Larry 58:01 well, I've never I've never said that the democrats were the cure all end all and when it comes down to victims advocates, the democrats are going to be on the wrong side they're going to side with the victims advocates and Republicans often do also, I don't know the politics of New York well enough to know but I do know that they got the assembly back. But you see the vote was unanimous in the Senate. So that would include democrats hundred and 32 three of the house. But but that doesn't tell the whole story. And I always tell people, you can't look at these because if it gets to the floor, you can't vote against the stuff you're going to get killed. right in your next election campaign. You have to look at what the committee's change when when majority party changes to the the ratio to control the committee's who chairs the the ratios go in favor of the majority party so a lot of things get bottled up and committee that if they were ever put on the floor would pass I mean, it countless things would pass on the floor if they could ever get to the floor. That that that that's just the way it is and person listening out there doesn't instead the process I would say, Well, why does it ever they go directly or well, because it can't right now we're over 1000 or right at 1000 bills that are legislature for 60 days session. And we still got to the 15th before the deadline to introduce cuts off Andy 59:17 right, Larry 59:18 it would not be possible to vet that may pieces of legislation by the entire body. So the so the committee's are where the work is done. They try to align committees if they're doing it consistent with any type of system with with what the member desires to their expertise of life, and what they what they interested in, and then so you already has a play at it, but but the majority party controls, the calendar controls, the chairs chairmanships, the chairperson ships and the ratio so the committee's and so what was bottled up in committee has now gotten out of committee, the the the victims advocates have gotten better, better organized, they started with relatively like a few years, we only just had one that was show up here at our capital, it was easy to to marginalize and if that's probably not the best choice of word, but it was easier for us to to overcome what one says now they're showing up in much greater numbers. They're they're parading through several people saying how bad the all this happened to me 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, I've heard as much as 40 years ago people that come to the capital tell stories about things I don't know if they're true I don't know if they're not true. But I do know is I can't get a fair trial. If someone's brought before if someone's charged with these old offenses they cannot get a fair trial It has nothing to do with me not caring about whether that happened to you or not maybe it did maybe it did I know that you bought that person to get a fair trial you should want that person to be a get a fair trial wishes I don't know that you do want but you should want that person to get a fair trial because the next person who's accused of something they didn't do could be you and and that's why you want that person to get a fair trial right and you can't get a fair trial decades later Andy 1:01:10 there's a there's a block and the article says the justice system turns its back on victims in the state of New York and today that's going to change said Marcy Hamilton CEO of child USA and for those that don't remember it didn't watch it Marcy Hamilton is the one that debated Emily Horowitz in New York that video came out about a year ago highly recommend it excuse me not Marcy. Emily pretty much wrecked Marcy Hamilton on everything that she was trying to say that like, they don't age out the recidivism rate. All these things Emily had all of her stats in place and and debated her very well. And Marcy was just kind of dumbfounded by the level of support that Emily had, and just outstanding. Marcy is not one of our friends. That is for damn sure. Oh, and Andy Larry 1:01:55 can play you say that you build the victims advocate. So we're going to work hand hand and say goodbye. And we're gonna be on the same page someday. I don't know why you don't understand that. Andy 1:02:07 Yeah. All right, then, hey, let's move on to you. I you know, we might actually need to talk about getting people tinfoil hats, and all these things. Because this one is, this one's disturbing me specifically. And this is from the appeal. And it's prisons across the US are quietly building databases of incarcerated peoples of voiceprints. They say in the article that there are states where you will have like a script that you will read, and they will record your voice print. And then from that point forward, they know exactly who you are. And that means if you are then not incarcerated, and you speak to someone inside the prison system, now, they have your voiceprint this to a certain degree, makes anybody on the outside your friends, family, whatever, that you may be talking to that their voices are now getting fingerprinted, giving the officials law enforcement apparatus, the information that your mom is also talking to these other people in prison, and to a certain degree, criminalizes her. Being a friend of felons, this is not cool, you already have to fill out paperwork to approve phones, at least I knew in my state, they do, maybe not all of them. So they already kind of sort of know who you are talking to when you pick up that phone. But now they're making it to the point where you will say, I guess I just won't call my family anymore. Larry 1:03:33 I guess that's where we're headed with this. because technology is always hard to turn back the technology gets way ahead of, of civil liberties. And, and before anybody thinks about the civil ramifications to to our liberties is becoming grand. And there's an industrial complex blowing up and you look at that list of states that are already doing this, even your zone, they it's hard, because when you try to make a public stand against this presence, institutional security, oh, I gotta keep this to save too much contraband coming in a hole. And it's hard to get public support for Jellybean Australians are given is like our guest last week to said that the word controls as a date that therefore really you're ready to just just because law enforcement says I need something you're ready to just okay. Well, sure. That's exactly what you need a little more skeptical of the presence need for this. But I don't know what we can do about it. Andy 1:04:34 Yeah, I think this one would be really hard. I mean, you know, this, this isn't terribly different than having all of the cameras on every street corner everywhere, just watching all your movements, not necessarily to watch your movements, but to look for traffic congestion or things, you know, to be able to have some sort of record if there's a crime not to watch people. But in effect, you end up watching all the people because you have the data. Yeah, this this one really bothers me from a civil liberties point of view that you You are now effectively making it you're making it significantly harder for people to have conversations with their families, and you are in effect kind of criminalizing those people for having conversations with you on the inside this one really Larry 1:05:13 secure us which, which is one of the big companies. I wonder why they didn't want to respond to a request for comment. I know Andy 1:05:18 that one of the Friends of the podcast, Josh, who does the decarceration nation podcast, he went over and he is actually like, called them out in a massive way on Twitter. And I don't know to what degree he's had, I want to say he's even had interviews with them. He's He's spoken to them on the phone, I'd have to get more details he's been somewhat effective at getting in touch with them to some degree, if I'm not mistaken. Larry 1:05:42 Well, the President says that the problem that they're having with the current system is that people are using other people's pins that even though they think they know who's on the phone, they really don't, because if they use someone else's pad, and it's not the person that the calls registered to that that's their justification. Yeah, Unknown 1:05:56 I mean, Andy 1:05:57 and they try really hard to figure out, you know, know, if you're forwarding if your mom's forward in the phone to your brother, whatever, because they made it so hard for you to make phone calls, like make it easier to make phone calls, you already have caller ID, like you have an idea who's on the other end of the phone. I mean, like, I have stuff on my phone that tells me who's calling when they're calling. And I don't necessarily have them in my contact. You can't tell me that with the law enforcement apparatus that they don't already know who you're calling. Yes, it could be spoofed. But those are probably the people, you know, like the massive drug dealer cartel types already. You're probably already watching them more, but just some Joe Schmoe. They're just trying to call mom to get some money put on their books, Larry 1:06:41 though. Well, and I think I get tickled when I hear a prison officials say well, they weren't up enough good, they wouldn't mind going to the monitoring system. Well, that's crazy because they spent this systems only monitor it's very expensive to buy calls are particularly if you don't if they have the receiving some numbers outside the area code code of the original is it not just area code, but what they used to call the local access transporter. If it's outside the lotto. You could be in the same area code, but be outside a lot in as long distance. So people end up getting getting stuck with total charges it Who would want to pay 568, 1012, $15 a phone call? And I said, Well, why would they want a cell phone because they don't want to pay that rip off money. They don't have it. That's why well, this is a long article, but there's a number of states alert states Texas seconds required. New York says it has under as 92% of population enrolled at it. Unknown 1:07:35 Yeah, Larry 1:07:37 you know, Texas, Arkansas. Yep, Florida. So these this is this is the wave of the future. Andy 1:07:44 No doubt. Good times. Man. Good. Good times. This one's a little bit interesting. I don't know what sled is. This one's called coming from South Carolina abc news four.com sled, send sex offender alerts to you get them. This is a total fear mongering article. I don't know what sled I don't know that they ever said what sled stands for, but it's like sex offender level note of, you know, emergency distribution, whatever it stands for. But there it's funny. So there are 10,000 people roughly on the sex offender registry in South Carolina. And they got some little some officer to cop to say how challenging it is for him to go out and monitor it says the state mandatory mandates that we check, do one field check a year minimum to anybody on the registry. We also have to check them anytime they move or change residency, we have to check them within about 30 days. At his little County, there's 900 in his in his County. So he has to do 75 home visits per month in his County. And I'm like, stop stop doing them. But they're trying to promote a notification system where other states in Louisiana at 4000 people know right away when a sex offender moves in and an Arkansas at 500 signed up. But only a few hundred people, 1300 people have signed up in South Carolina. So it's like, okay, and just to just to backtrack, I was speaking to one of our listeners before the show, and this is relevant. He says, Well, don't you have a right to know when someone moves in next door? That's on the registry? Larry 1:09:18 I don't know where such right but it come from? What would give you the right to know who lives next door to you? I Andy 1:09:23 don't know what I mean. Can you fabricate an idea of why someone would have the right to know Larry 1:09:28 Well, why me what this is good. an assertion that has been behind the registry, I have a right to know. No, you have no right to know who lives next to you. Where do you Where do you think? Where does it right in try that you have the right to know I've told in America, you had the right to privacy for to help you get the idea. You have the right to know, Andy 1:09:45 right. Larry 1:09:48 But we've never challenged that I'm the only one I know that will say our advocates. When I said we don't have a right to know I would say no, ma'am. You actually don't have a right to know, arguably, you might have a right to know if the person that still paying their debt to society. For example, parole supervision, if they're under community controlled health arrest, or something you buy could argue that you would have a right to know. But when they've paid their debt to society, you have no such right to know. Right. And, but, but we always, we always say, yes, you have a right to know. No, you actually don't you you have the right to vote on the tax assessor's office and see who owns the property. Those are public records, but who lives in house once you try to knock on that door and telling people you're taking the role. Who lives there? Did you have a right to know find out what happens to you do that for the rest of the day all weekend? And tell me what happens to you. Andy 1:10:36 Oh, sled stands for state law enforcement division Larry 1:10:42 what I got when I got a moment But yeah, I found that out by googling and when I read the article Andy 1:10:46 Oh, it's at the very bottom of the article if you want to see the most up to date list of sex offenders living or working in check out that South Carolina Sex Offender Registry on the sled state law enforcement website, click here. So yeah, so this is about this isn't our about some officer just bitching that he has to check 75 people a month to sign up to get notifications to make his job easier? Good times. Unknown 1:11:08 Oh, Larry 1:11:09 well, I love that right to know. But the registry matters podcast at least half the team doesn't think you have a right to know what I would challenge you to show me where you have the right to know. I mean, you have the right to know in the sense that they've that they've passed a statute that says you have a right to know but you don't have any constitutional right to know this is an invented right that you have invented and got codifying but there's no right to know where somebody who's lived in a particular dwellings none of your damn business in fact. Andy 1:11:36 Right. Right. Right. Right. The final Article of the night is going to be a I got it through Florida Action Committee, but you could probably find it from some different places. I will have a second link in there in the show notes from Arkansas online. But we spoke I pretty sure it was last week. If not, it was the week before that Arkansas was trying to introduce they were introducing a bill that would make a they would criminalize Halloween for certain offenders. But as it turns out, that representative Andrew Collins showed up and showed up and formed and asked some various questions if she was aware of studies that showed zero increase in sex offender crimes and Halloweens and that the so that when I said she was Rebecca petty and she said I do not have the answer. Then she called an Arkansas crime Information Center administrator Brad closer to answer and the question on the committee and coaster it said he did not have any hard data specific to Halloween crimes by registered offenders. And it maybe the bill has been shut down. So we have effectively one person has shut down this bill from from getting very far. Larry 1:12:46 But it got quite quite a ways that past the the Arkansas senate It was a Senate bill platelets and built him but it passed the Senate flying colors 29 to one I believe, or unanimously but then it goes to the house so the gets killed in committee. And so kudos to Arkansas people time, Arkansas time after time. At amp T. I believe it is so dark, dark and salt on my for time. A little unclear since I've been in this arena for a long time. The terminology in Arkansas democrat Gazette report said that the bill was that the vote was expunged. And I've been in legislation legislating an industry for a long time I've ever heard that as a terminology. So I don't know particular what that means in terms of of resuscitation. If this man proposal when something is killing committee, typically, it can be brought back to life and resurrected it can be improved. Now this one, I was itching for a fight. Although I said last week, I didn't think it was going to be a slam dunk. But it looked like it was vague enough that that a good void for bigness challenge could be Baden and actually one of the attorneys if you look at because that article apparently brought this issue up and said that, that that that the there was a issue of it being too vague. So. So it may be that they tabled it temporarily. And I'm going to use the term table which is what most familiar with when something can't move forward because it structurally defective what we do here and in many states as we table it, and then they work on it. And then they bring it back to life by emotion to remove it from the table and put back active consideration. So I don't know exactly if this is the same process in Arkansas. But it'd be nice to have an art cancelled, let us know. And boy did they love it. When you call them Kansas. It'd be nice to find out if this is dead for the year. But it looked like from the article in the paper that it could be resurrected and which case you need to be constantly on guard watching what's going on and be ready to pounce if they try to resurrect this horrible bill. But it is an example of a few people making a difference. This, like, sailed through the Senate. And then it got got in trouble in the house. There were cooler heads prevailed, and at least it's been two burly if not permanently derail for this session. But as I've said on so many podcast before these people don't give up, they come back and they come back again. Yeah, we talked about it earlier for 10 years worse. Yeah, Andy 1:15:13 yeah. And but the thing that I really wanted you to latch on to his as being one of those people that will go do these derailments that as far as the article says, one person, maybe two people, maybe one of our constituents brought that the politician brought him the statistics and said, Hey, this is stupid because of XYZ. And he was then able to go into the committee and say, Hey, let me ask you these couple questions. And that shut the whole thing down just by that what seems to be pretty low level, easy level of informing a politician of how these things are just bad ideas. Larry 1:15:50 Well, it does say makes it actually it's not that easy. It's not impossible. But first of all, the person had have proximity, a little rock, they had to be reasonably intelligent and coherent and be able to communicate the don't get the best respective you come in with screws and bolts that with your with your pants hanging down to your showing off your butt crack and lucky disrespectful to for the environment you're in. So you have to be able to comport yourself in a professional dignified manner, you have to be able to pursue the key person knows who the key person is to talk to, and you have to analyze how politically expose that person might be that might be bloated to raise these questions, you have to latch on to that person and get them informed enough. And it requires relationships that respect. So that's a little bit of work into it. But yes, it with a modest amount of work, one person can make a lot of difference. And so I don't want to minimize that it was it took a lot of effort, but it's something that more people could do if they set their mind to it. But, but it would require it would require commitment, and understanding the process and being respectful of the process. Don't go into the house and be rude, disrespectful, go in dress, like a like a bob, expect to gain respect, I mean, dress the part I see to pay people come in the capital that look look like that. That I mean, nobody's gonna take him seriously. But they come in, and they say, their piece. And, and the decisions are made after they've had had their piece to say, but this is this is example of a modest amount of work paying a dividend. Andy 1:17:20 Yeah, but I didn't want to minimize it. But I didn't also want to, like, you know, it's not like you had to climb Mount Everest, there is a process, but it is a teachable process. And it's not rocket science, making some relationships, you know, following being respectful and all that stuff. But I didn't want to minimize but I also didn't want to, like make it seem like it is, you know, moving a mountain either, it's something that our people could do more regularly is really what I'm trying to get at. Larry 1:17:45 But they are people could do that. And they did do that. And our people could do more of that. But it is the processes were complicated enough to where oftentimes you end up spending a day the ability gets rolled over to another day, because the congestion on the calendar and it's it's it's difficult work, right. I mean, but but but it's, it's not rocket science. I suspect that a lot of people out there could do it if they if they if they set their mind about and wanted to learn the process. Andy 1:18:14 Well, all right, then I think we we've covered all the things have we covered all the things Larry 1:18:22 I think we have, but we kind of get this podcast to double this year. I remember Andy 1:18:25 that wasn't that I was actually trying to go tenfold but double would be just fine. I didn't know if I wanted to try and commit to a tenfold increase Larry 1:18:33 Well, how are we going to do that what would be the way to help it help it Do I Andy 1:18:36 need specifically Jeff to go out there and share this with and get 10 people to listen to it and then also I need you Larry to get 10 people to listen to it and I'm going to get 10 people to listen to it if we could get everybody listens to this to get 10 more people to listen to it when we would have a tenfold increase and that would be easy peasy but you would find it by going to the website at registry matters dot CEO not co m but registry matters dot CEO you can find it on your podcast app of choice all over the inter webs you can ask your Smart Home speaker how to find it and there's that you can email us at registry matters cast at gmail. com and your favorite Larry you could call in and leave a voicemail message at 747-227-4477 and you can find us of course the best way to support the podcast is over at Patreon so visit us@patreon.com slash registry matters and iTunes Google Play Spotify YouTube where it all the places that's all I got well no one Larry 1:19:36 called us this weekend I love I love voice messages if there if Andy 1:19:41 there were some phone calls they were they were there were some phone calls one of them was way too long and one of them the quality wasn't good enough for me to use oh well we have a person that is very much anti polygraph and wants to talk all about it Larry 1:19:54 well that should that should be something you would love I would but Andy 1:19:57 like every third word he broke up and couldn't under so I had to let it go then anti polygraph for you that are calling again and make sure you have a solid connection. I will do that. I will I will reach out to him. And could we had some debate back and forth conversation backward. Not debate about it. But yeah, so yep, that's all we got. And Larry, as always, thank you very much for joining me and we look forward to it in the near future. Larry 1:20:21 Thanks Dan. I hope you invite me back. Andy 1:20:23 I will invite you back. Most likely take care. Have a good night. Unknown 1:20:26 Bye. Transcribed by https://otter.ai