Andy  0:00  
registry matters is an independent production. The opinions and ideas here are that of the hosts and do not reflect the opinions of any other organization. If you have a problem with these thoughts, FYI p recording live from FTP studios in a heatwave in the east, and I don't know how it is that Wes transmitted across the internet, this is Episode 69 of registry matters. Larry, what's up?

Larry  0:21  
Well, I'm just having a great time. We're not having a heatwave, it's it's beautiful a dice but there's there's no what he does like a 60 degree day

Andy  0:28  
very, very beautiful. Everyone that I have seen that has a convertible is driving around with the top down and they are loving life, low humidity, and it's like in the mid 70s. It's a stellar day.

Larry  0:38  
It sounds fantastic. I wish I wish I could be down or they grow the peaches and the peanuts.

Andy  0:47  
So why don't you tell us a little story about where people work and how much decision they have in that process of deciding how their work conditions are?

Larry  0:56  
Well, that's that comes from my home state. I'm working as an uninsured issue advisor to the legal team that's involved in a challenge here. For those of you who who don't know, by state, we have where we're loaded on federal facilities, we have Air Force bases, national labs, we were the biggest drain on the federal resources because we have open skies and it's great trading weather, but in it oh terrible County, which is stuck with a seat as Alma Gordo. There is a dispute running between the district judges, which is the trial level court of general jurisdiction, the district judges field at the building that they work in and has become too antiquated. And they would like to force the county commission to build them a new structure. And and I'm on the other side of that, which is trying to preserve the separation of powers that the judges are not entitled to force the county commission to do anything unless they are members of the county commission. So the judges have taken the extraordinary measure of falling.

rent one of the extraordinary Ritz it available called a mandate must in a band Davis is used to force it administrative agency to do something that that they are required to do and failing to do or to prohibit them from doing something that they're not that they don't have authority to do that they are doing. So the judges theory is that that the county commissioners have a duty to provide them a structure to their liking. Now they're partially right on that the county commission does have a duty to provide the court structure. But that's where the that's where it breaks down. It's not one to their liking as one to the county commissions, likely until the voters who are paying the taxes to support that structures as to their liking. And the judges are merely employees that work within the building. And is posted plays I've been in the workforce 40 years. I guess you've been on workforce a few decades yourself. But When's the last time you got to specifically record that a building beat that you worked in with your standards?

Andy  3:05  
Yeah, I mean, I don't get to they do afford you. Sometimes they'll let you decorate it. But you don't get to say hey, let's Why don't we move this building over here. And we should take that building instead?

Larry  3:14  
Well, they have they have a valid issues of building is old. I think it goes back to the Works Progress Administration of the depression. And it's by by modern design standards that it doesn't receive traffic. Well, it doesn't have good ventilation. It doesn't. It doesn't have separate elevators for prisoners and judges. I mean, it doesn't comport with the bottom structure. But the citizens of adult living in Otero County, they have to pay the taxes and they love low. There's no Carroll County. And they have the capacity to impose what we call gross receipts, which one states called sales tax, they have the capacity to use some of their unused gross receipts tax authority, that she was not to do that. And they have the authority to levy property tax, they can increase the middle levy. And they choose not to do that. But that's their choice. So what taxes they levy on themselves, it's up to the voters of the county commissioners level Terrell county and how they allocate what's been collected, and how they spend it is up to the up to the them and not to the judges, the judges, the only thing they can do is work at the building they're provided. And to me, this case is a no brainer. But the judges have taken extraordinary step of filing a lawsuit against the county commissioners. And it's a it's an litigation. And then the the county commissioners took their for their step of falling another bit called a writ of Superintendent control with the state Supreme Court, which is to prohibit a judge from taking an action that they're not allowed to do it. We talked about that in the case of Georgia, we scratch their heads wondering why Georgia didn't have such a rip. But when a court is acting outside its scope of authority, the riddle Superintendent control could be used to shut down the court. So this so the county commissioners rid of the the the the district judge who's presiding over the case, and said you don't have the authority to hear this because this was not something that this this rebutted, that can be routed through a rip off the through a rid of mandate, but this was not the right vehicle. And the judges above you, they should seek a different occupation. If they don't like their work quarters. I mean, they can come and complain to the county commissioners, which which they've been doing for years. And they can they can appeal to the voters for higher taxes, which probably will follow this down for years of that part of the state. But you get to work at the building you're provided. And if you don't like that you can, perhaps the judge and another part of the state, or you could move on to another lot of work, but but you get to work in the building that you're provided.

Andy  5:47  
So two things a, they have to stay in their lane. That's what you're really trying to say. Right?

Larry  5:52  
Absolutely. This is a clear separation of powers the the power to levy and collect taxes, rest with the elected commissioners, and how to allocate those rest with the county commissioners, the judges do not get to decide that.

Andy  6:07  
And this is then at least at least very similar to the places where they have people throw up signs in the yard at Halloween and they don't have it in the statute tells them to them the sheriff just goes out and wants to do it on their own. I mean, it's it's an equivalent thing to that right?

Larry  6:22  
Verse fair, similar where the where the where the sheriff is acting outside the statutory authority. But this is just even beyond that this was separation of powers, where the judge, the judges are in the interpretive business. They're not in the legislative business, um, let's say choose to be in that business. Now they could try to get a judge to shut the courthouse down saying it substandard. And to my knowledge, I think they've tried that and failed. They they haven't tried to get the judge but they tried to get the building authorities that oversee buildings to revoke the certificate of occupancy. They have not succeeded in doing that. But you get to work in the building your provided judge. And if you don't like that building, perhaps maybe all referral does a lot of work. But that's the building the citizens of whatever County are willing to provide you.

Andy  7:07  
And I don't want to be like to tongue in cheek. I mean, they literally could quit and go to another county, I mean, a job

Larry  7:14  
right now that they would not be able to do a lateral transfer, they would have to be appointed to another judgeship. But when they were appointed to that judge, if they could have told the governor, you know, I would take the job. But you've got a county courthouses just far too antiquated not would never consider working there. And if the judge if the governor can't find 80 people to point to the judgeships that make persuade the voters that they might be willing to impose a little bit harder, let me find themselves in that county does have some disadvantages, in addition to the fact that they don't like to tax themselves. A lot of that land is under federal control, which is not on the tax rolls because of the of the Air Force Base of that property doesn't get taxed. But but but the locals. So there's there's they have that handicap which a lot of western states, have you have a significant amount of land? It's not on the local tax rolls.

Andy  8:02  
Yeah, certainly. There's a bunch of space out there. Interesting. And and how likely do you think it is that that you will prevail?

Larry  8:12  
Well, if if the arguments that are that are relevant, or followed by the Supreme Court, I don't see the way this case could be lost. I don't see any way that the Supreme Court can allow this action to continue to move forward, which they did. And they stopped at last week, the issue to stay of the of the trial that was scheduled for for next week. But it's it's a political battery, it's not something for the judges to be involved in. So I would think that the Supreme Court will have to say that this, that this state is going to be made permanent and they can't, they can't rescue themselves by using the courts to try to force the taxpayers to do with the taxpayers have chosen not to do. Gotcha,

Andy  8:51  
gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. That's interesting. And I like what kind of timeline I mean, is this like, right around the corner? Does this take six months to go through? Is that the ACL you think of Michigan that takes years and decades to go?

Larry  9:02  
It is a weld it will take to have all the Supreme Court wants it to take but but they will they'll probably order briefing and it'll be it'll be in the coming six months? I would, I would assume that if they were or argument addition to briefing, it could take longer scheduled or arguments but but I to be this is this is a sure. Winner. Oh, it's a loser for the judges. But as for sure a winner for for the team on which is the county commissioners get to decide what taxes and how to allocate them. And that's the way it has been. And that's the way it should be. That's the way I think it will be.

Andy  9:35  
Interesting. Well, are you ready to move on? Let's do it. Alright, well, this. This is sort of like out of order. I was having an email conversation with what will be at the end of the show from a longtime patron Mike. And he had a comment. He said he's still loving the podcast, please keep it up. I've never missed one. You guys sound really clear nowadays. Also, as an FYI, I have an FYI p playlist for days when I'm feeling a little less than happy about the register. And it's and it's never ending bullshit about that. It's pretty good.

Larry  10:04  
What they fit listen to the podcast.

Andy  10:06  
Yeah, he's got like a playlist of his favorite episodes. Oh, okay. How about that? Love it? Uh, so yeah, thank you for that, Mike. And thank you very much for being a patron for quite a while now. And also thank you to all of our listeners and patrons in general. But we do get a we do have an email message, or excuse me, we do have a voicemail message from a man named Don, are excuse me, Dan. And let's see what Dan has to say.

Unknown  10:34  
Hi, my name is steam, steam. Have a registrant here in Denver. This question is for Larry, a few weeks ago on your podcast to mention that the New Mexico registry. If you had been convicted before 1995, you wouldn't have to register there. If I understood you correctly. I did go on to their website, New Mexico website. And they said on the website said if you're still on probation or parole, during 1995, you will still have to register even if your conviction was before that. So you may have been convicted in 1985. But if you were still on probation, you still have to register? Can you clear that up? Whether I misunderstood you or if I'm misunderstanding the New Mexico website? I appreciate your time. And I appreciate your show. And if people

Unknown  11:39  
peace, thank you.

Andy  11:44  
It's FYI, P and it is friendly, young people.

Larry  11:50  
All right. I'd be glad to answer that one. I could have had a senior moment and misspoke. But I'm hoping that it was a misunderstanding. The what he's reciting is correct. The the registration obligation. It originally started in 95 for those who were convicted on or after July one of 95. But in 2000, they came along because probation parole had been griping for the intervening five years saying that they were releasing all these people that had sexual offense convictions from from custody. And that they they they saw it is a double standard, because the people who they were releasing did not have to register. And the people that that there was there was two groups. So they went and changed the law and made a clickable data what he was convicted after July 195, or who was in prison as of July 195, or who was on probation really serving any portion of their sentence. Which means if a person was serving one day of their sentence, order after July 195, regardless of how the conviction is, they would be covered by our version, one of sorta gets a little more complicated than that. Because Cause if you if your sentence lasted for another 10 years, and you were still serving any portion of that sentence, so say, say hypothetically, you had a conviction for for criminality that occurred in 1980. And you've got convicted in 85. And you got released on July 1 1995.

That's true. You have to sort of one, our first version, we have three, say you had 10 years of probation. And you got discharged on July one 2005. And these are all hypothetical illustrate the worst, you would have been transitioned into our second version of Florida, because you would have been serving one day of your sentence as of July one 2005, which captured anybody who was was in the system who had not totaled out vinyl doubt. So your registration obligations would have gone on that day, for once a year for 20 years to four times a year for life. Just that one day would have made all the difference for it. So so you Those are the people who we call double whammy, but simply don't use that word. But we're we're talking privately. Those are people who got double he screwed and and there's a significant number of them who got who got souped up twice, they got retroactively roped in, and then they got souped up and oh five because they

hadn't finished tapers, oh, well, that's miserable.

And then we have a third version, if you were convicted of this truly does rest of the data conviction. If you were convicted otter after July one 2013. But if the three versions, there's only one that applies for conviction data is relevant. The other dates are the other two are when you got off PayPal.

Andy  14:39  
Let's move on to a voicemail message from Rob talking about interstate compact, which is your definitely your area of expertise.

Unknown  14:47  
Hi, this is Rob calling from Pennsylvania. I very much appreciate what you guys do both slavery and Andy, you do a wonderful job Look forward to it every week listening to the podcast question that I have is basically regarding the interstate compact. My

Unknown  15:07  
conviction was out of New York, I live in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, is where I'm at my understanding that you can fall to get off of probation, which is what I was sentenced to 10 years probation early. I'm in my sixth year, it's my understanding that after you serve, at least as you can put a request in to have your probation and if everything is good with you. However, my probation officer here in pa we have a good rapport, as submitted my last annual report to New York, that I'm in compliance and requested consideration to be released of probation. There was email back and forth between him and requesting additional information, but nothing has been heard since. Now. Sharon few months back. So what my question is, is the forums, go find an attorney in New York and try to do it on my own. If the process is handled through the interstate compact, and they released me,

Unknown  16:09  
that would be wonderful. But because nothing's been heard, I don't know who to contact at the interstate contact, if there is a Pennsylvania and New York or for particular person to speak to. And regarding the status of that request. Again, I appreciate what you guys do. And FL IP

Larry  16:34  
that's starting to catch on Andy. I'm trying I'm trying starting to catch on. It's

Unknown  16:40  
going to be just like mega dose. It's it's a great

Larry  16:43  
question there. And what I would I would start with by saying that this would not be construed as legal advice, but I don't even think it even comes close. What what what the process would be would be pretend like that you're you're not even in Pennsylvania, because Pennsylvania has very little to do with it. Pennsylvania is mostly out of the loop.

You would do exactly what you would do if you were in New York

to get to get early termination. It's entirely up to New York. So if it were me, I would look at the court system in New York, which is one of the funkiest ones I've ever seen. So I'm not even try to explain it because I don't understand it. But the senate think the citizen court generally has jurisdiction over early termination from supervision. So I would, I would contact an attorney in New York, which is what he's trying to avoid doing. And ask him, what is the temperature on early terminations in this county. And like for Georgia, your hundred 59 counties, we we know,

those of us who are familiar with Georgia, we know that those Metro counties, those those five main counties, and then some of the sort of further ones out to have that blended it. But we know if you're involved with the cab call, we're Clayton, that they that their caseload so horrendous, that they are fairly sympathetic to people who are doing well under supervision. And they they thought they thought they grant allowed those petitions. So I would tell him, despite his hesitancy to to speak with an attorney, backwards, convicted, and find out what their temperature is, I have not seen this process work. But once in my life, where a supervising what's called a receiving state has actively tried to get someone off supervision. I've seen it once. They normally don't want to make a recommendation, particularly for someone who might be on a sex offender registry required to register, they don't want to stick their neck out. So what they do under the compact through icons, which is the electronic transmission system, they transmit reports back to the sending state progress reports periodically. And it would require an unusual set of circumstances where the person in the receiving state, I mean acidic state, getting a report from the receiving state would initiate that Process on behalf of defender to petition for them to get removed. What I would suspect happens as these glowing reports that Pennsylvania sending back to New York, they're big filed away, and the person, the people there in Pennsylvania, and you are happy that Pennsylvania Scott the person and there, I would expect nothing to happen unless the initiate something in New York, but he needs to find out what the process is. And he needs to if he's at a county, we're only 10% of the people were getting let loose supervision and no sex of it has been terminated it everyone's memory, that it probably wouldn't be the best use of money to follow that early termination. But as a general rule, where we're poor, they have long terms of probation. the midway point or and beyond is a good time to apply for removal and termination from active supervision. They may choose to meet you halfway not and not terminate your from probation or together but to terminate all supervisory requirements and keep the 10 years intact. But you would have any reporting obligations, which would relieve the interstate compact, because the interstate compact is only valid if you have a reporting obligation if they if all the fees and fines are paid. And they don't want you to do anything other than live a wholesome clean life. And they say that nothing else is required of you. Then the interstate combat goes out of out of the picture and Pennsylvania would close supervision. Anyone there's a probation with continue it on unsupervised status.

Andy  20:35  
So interest,

Larry  20:36  
contact, contact people in New York contact people who actually deal with criminal cases in that jurisdiction and find out how they treat petitions for removal. And do not try to call the interstate compact office. They don't work with offenders. You can call it they do have phones, I think, but you're not going to get anywhere. By calling them. They're going to tell you that it's all up to New York, you can call there's an interstate compact for adult supervision website. They have the the the compact administrators names and Deputy contact contact administrators all listed on the homepage. But calling them is not the way the system is set up to work is is designed to work between the states for board with each other. And the collagen interstate compact and either office is not going to have a positive outcome and my experience.

Andy  21:28  
I will add that I can't remember if it was episode one or two of the podcast where we covered interstate complex. And this is an area that you have an unbelievable amount of expertise and you do training around your state and I guess it do you do it in other places too, besides just doing only

Larry  21:42  
on La here. Yes. It's it's a it's way undertrained. I don't come anywhere near touching. What there is on this a complicated situation. Very few attorneys understand it. Many judges don't understand it. Prosecutors don't understand it. They treated as an extra edition rather than the that are retaking. They don't provide people do process. And it's it's it's very complicated. But his it's not that complicated. Only the New York court that sentence Tim can turn turn it loose. Pennsylvania, will be asked for input when he falls that but the first thing the prosecutor and the courts don't want to see as how he's doing in Pennsylvania. What did they say about him? So those reports going to be significant. But but that that's definitely is not going to go to New York testify.

Written reports and that they might want to cycle sexually valuation. In the case of a sex offender. I always tell people, it's a good idea to plan for one of those because New York has a risk based system. But I suspect that if I were a prosecutor, if that's who actually and I can't imagine anybody else, but if I were prosecutor, and on the other side of this petition, I would want to psychosexual evaluate, to make sure how how, how adamantly we were going to pose the early termination. So I would plan to have a psychosexual eval. And I would plan to have a a New York Attorney if you want to get off supervision.

Andy  23:03  
Gotcha. Wow, yeah, this, that interstate compact thing is so complicated and, and not to like rehash and beat a dead horse. But you talk about that, like the revocation hearing. And people often just like sign the waiver so they can get, I'm just going to say deported. I don't know if that's the right word. But now you go back to your sending state, but maybe your witnesses are back where you came from, that could provide you with some level of witnessing, and evidence to support that you're innocent of it. And now you're back home and no one's going to travel across the country. It's this is a nightmare.

Larry  23:32  
This is really good. This is a total nightmare. And the system. There's not enough training and like I say what little I do, and it's all a monetary issue, that there's not enough money to pay for the trainings that people need. And I DO IT pro bono. But there's, there's a monetary issue of people not understanding. So attorneys are trying to clear cases. So the persons in custody, and the jail is wanting to get rid of people and the attorneys want to get this off of the public defender who has 117 other files has to get this one office office table. And they tell the person what you ought to just go ahead and go back to New York. Well, you should also hit go and go back New York. If it's a technical violation. Now, if they've charged you with a brand new crime, then you're not going to go back until you finish dealing with the criminal charges in the receiving state. But if its technical violations, you absolutely want that probable cause hearing. And nobody understands that so they sign a waiver of extradition when there's no extradition, you've already waived extradition. I can just about guarantee you that this question are signed a waiver of extradition, it has application and all the paperwork decide to go to Pennsylvania and New York already has the waiver in place. They don't need a waiver extradition. But he's entitled to a determination of probable cause that he's violated. supervision before he has to go back to New York to face a full blown revocation. That's where the system breaks down.

Andy  24:56  
What a mess. Well, on our list of articles This one's this one came on my radar and I just saw the title is like, Okay, well, this you know, this fits right into our wheelhouse, but the it's completely opposite of what not opposite, it's it doesn't have anything to do with what we usually talk about, but this is Marcy's law. This is from reason magazine, Marcy's laws a gift a bad cops. But like, why would a cop be able to use quote unquote, Marcy's law, which my understanding is it's a way for victims to have more information about their, their purpose, whatever. Like, they get notified when they're coming out of prison and things like that. Almost like, I guess you could say it's almost like, Oh, darn it. What uh, what is it when you get a judge to? What is it when you get a judge to say that you can't be within 500 feet of a person? That's restraint restraining order, it's kind of feels to me it's kind of like that, but so here i cop shoot someone on the job, and then they get to go clay Marcy's loss so when the persons out on bond or something like that, that they don't know who shot them. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Larry  26:00  
I had trouble with the article. But it's best like a deciphered it looks like that the COP is saying that he's the victim because he had to shoot the bad guy. And the bad guide since he didn't die is going to come after him. And he's entitled to protection under martial law, because he's he's put into another victim with the bad guy gets information about him. So he uses the the victim privacy laws under Marcy's to claim coverage. And this is an example of how these things that that go through legislative bodies go through without enough debate about nuances. Because if you're not really driven to try to come up with dredge up hypotheticals of what could happen. This is, according to the article, that unintended consequence of Marcy slow.

Andy  26:45  
Yeah, no doubt. And and but isn't that how a whole lot of things they called riders, sometimes we're okay, here's the meat and potatoes of this bill, oh, we're going to slip this extra thing on there to just add something else, and the one's going to vote against the thing, but maybe they're voting against it for the rider? Am I making sense there?

Larry  27:06  
It could be but this could just be poorly drafted legislation. Because the the the victims advocates are so powerful, that add the other side is so weak, that that that there's very little debate, and even when there is a little bit of debate, a seller robust, and it's hard to say no to these people who are crying about how this treated they are I mean, if you go to legislate, I mean, I would really encourage you to go when there's when there's legislation deal with victims, to go the capital. And listen, I mean, they'll tell stories, and they magically become experts, because they've been a crime victim. And they tell these tear jerking stories about how they're mistreated how the system abuses steps. And it's hard for a person who wants to have good public policy to say, Well, actually, if we pass that this is going to be the unintended consequence. And we can't have that because this is not good public policy. It's hard to tell these people that something's not good public policy. Right,

Andy  28:04  
right. Right. Right. Right. I just, you know, I remember when the election was going on here in Georgia, that the there were ads that would come out against ACA, but I'm saying that she voted against some sort of Bill. But when you actually like dig into it, yes, she voted against it. But she didn't voted against it for the reasons that they said that she voted against it for a whole other multitude of reasons of quote, unquote, being bad public policy. But you know, the media, left wing, right wing, they all they all present them, they spin it, how they want to make it to demonize the other side.

Larry  28:34  
Well, this this is this Mars is low, of course. I mean, it's easy. I don't see. I don't see that this is good public policy. But it's hard to oppose it. It's it's Yeah, it's got billions. I mean, it's got a billionaire behind it. And it they've got millions of dollars. And they're they're well organized, and our side isn't Oh, yeah.

Andy  28:55  
Yes, I know that, you know, you got 1 billion or that's going to fund it across the entire nation practically.

Well, moving along to a New York Times article that serial sex offenders are big problem on some way subways, should they be banned for life. Tell me what you think about that right off the bat layer?

Larry  29:12  
Well, I have a hard time banning anybody from any anything for life, after they've done their debt to society and seems a little bit hypocritical. The subways are largely publicly funded, like the streets, why don't we ban them from the streets? Also, why don't we ban them for all the parks? Why don't ban them? For me this the subway, the subway as a, as an integral part of people moving in places like Philadelphia, Chicago, New York City, Washington, DC, Atlanta to a major degree, you can't decide out of New York This is but but this this will be a contagion if, if if they if I do this in New York City that all the subway operators and all the city council's will say, well, gee, if I can do it there, we should do it here.

Andy  29:54  
Right?

Everyone thinks that he okay. So you, you have have now identified the person as being someone creepy and achy. And they've done a sexual crime, and now they're on the subway. First of all, they aren't necessarily going to do it a second time. But if they do, and they get caught, why don't you just punish them possibly even harsher than you did the first time to maybe the message didn't get through the first time?

Larry  30:21  
Well, that is exactly what what happened. I don't know if any jurisdiction with it, or they don't escalate punishment for repeat offenses. But this gets dangerously close to preventive detention. I mean, they're not being detained, but they're being detained from you something we don't we don't lock people up for what they might do in this country with rare exceptions. They the threat under civil commitment laws has to be eminent bodily or of course, unless it's sex offender civil to him, but then the standard is a little bit lower. But this is essentially Yes, it's it's lower than

sex offender. So civil commitment at state to state it's, it's more robust, depending on which which states the where the Civil War, the sex offender specific civil commitment is, but a normal civil commitment for people. It's a very, very tough standard to book because we're preventively putting someone away for something they might do. So it has to be pretty darn certain that they're going to do it. Well. The same thing here. If we're going to keep someone off the subway, they better be about to commit a crime. Otherwise, they should go to use public transportation the streets like everybody else.

Andy  31:24  
And so two things. One, I was listening to a podcast this week, and I don't remember the show or anything, but the person had moved out of New York City, out into the sticks like up in, you know, Syracuse or something like that. And the lady was saying that I had to get a driver's license. It was so weird. I had to learn how to drive because, you know, people in the United States typically have no concept that you could function and live without having a car brand of nurse all and so forth. Emily, Emily Horwitz, she doesn't own a car. She doesn't know how to drive

Larry  31:58  
it well. It's it's only a few cities or not, I'm not even sure how robust Philadelphia but but but you, you have to you have to live in just a handful of cities where we're or public transportation will be your, your gas production. We're not big on public transportation in this country. We're big on the car.

Andy  32:15  
A couple things they said in the article was, and this is really starting to irritate me common sense legislation. I, you could say, Hey, we're going to ban aliens from coming in. We're going to do this where you can always say, well, it's just common sense legislation. It's complete garbage,

Larry  32:32  
that they use that term all the time.

Andy  32:34  
And then right on the heels of that, then they say it's common sense legislation with the high recidivism rate of sexual offenders.

Larry  32:41  
It's like all predators all throughout the article. Wow. Yeah.

Andy  32:45  
So anyhow, so that's good times. I'm not that they are extremely left leaning over there. And in New York, and the the left has its

Larry  32:56  
problems with what I tell people that

the left has got it wrong on many issues. And the the victims, the victims carry a lot of sway with the left.

Andy  33:10  
Yeah,

Larry  33:12  
somewhere. And of course, I actually choose not to say I could actually, I could actually say what I think it is, but but it's a voting bloc, and it's particularly block, but the victims have a lot of suede. And and I get when you get if you analyze this, I would just about business victim driven? Oh, yeah, we're saying?

Andy  33:32  
Well, you know, we covered not not exactly related but in New York, where they had a statute of limitations, and it just got overturned, because the left had taken over the Dempsey taken over all the governmental offices and they got legislation push through and sign now you have like to your 55, I think, but prior to that, the Senate have been controlled by Republicans, and they kept that whole thing at bay and kept it from getting passed through.

Larry  33:56  
That is correct. We got more support from the republicans here on battle that we're going to talk about later in the podcast. We got we didn't get enough Republican support. We got more Republican support, ticket Democratic support for trying to trying to the team and we did type like they would get to that later in the podcast. But

Andy  34:15  
and moving on, we got something coming out on our song, which is press release Windsor locks, Connecticut repeals exclusion, Exclusion Zones under threat of federal lawsuit, as usual, Larry, you have a slightly different take on this at least as far as like the impact and the excitement that there should be had by it, then, can you can you give any background on what this is actually all about?

Larry  34:40  
l as Reagan says,

Unknown  34:44  
Yes, you will. Yeah.

Larry  34:48  
Well, my understanding was wish we had Cindy here, but my understanding was the last it was actually filed. And that they were at the point of needing to make decisions about about whether they're going to cover trial or not. So wasn't the threat of a lawsuit was the threat of actually going to trial and losing the lawsuit.

So so the, the attorney that handle the case, was actually not even from can get from North Carolina, Paul, do Blake who's who's integral to marshals legal efforts, and Paul file the lawsuit. And the town chose to settle rather than risking what the legal people thought was a certain laws and having to pay a significant amount of legal fees on both sides. So they put it to the they had a special meeting of the town. Residents and the town agree that the majority the town agreed that it was it would be better to repeal the law that conceivably lose a million dollars in legal fees.

Unknown  35:48  
Right. Cindy is pretty awesome up there in Connecticut.

Larry  35:51  
It is amazing. She's done such a good job learning how the system works and, and and bringing people into the effort and she's having that conference next month. Maybe we can promote it for maybe maybe we have someone listening in the New England area that would be interested in going but yeah, they've got a conference coming up early. And I think Cindy listens.

Andy  36:12  
Cindy, if you listen, I'll reach out to you. But if you want to come on and promote your conference, feel free get reach out to me, and then we can have a spot on for you.

Larry  36:20  
They and she's achieved impossible. She's got July 11 and the company to speak. And we've not been able to secure her presence. So she's got some kind of magic. She's the magic person who does so much research on recidivism is statistics. Okay. She's based in Florida, I believe.

Andy  36:41  
And then the city council or they had some vote, and to me the vote looks pretty. I mean, it's an overwhelming vote, but 5213 voted to remove the zone. But that's not necessarily so exciting. What was the count?

Larry  36:56  
Well, it's 5213 Yeah, and that was left of the pig who showed up for the for the council meeting of the 10,000 or so residents of the town.

Andy  37:05  
So we had like a what is that a hundredth of a hundredth of a percent

Larry  37:11  
but but it was considered adequate. I was like led legislative body you know, you you're making laws that entire state and you'll have on average bill, you might have a handful of people and something controversial for the whole state when we had some major controversial legislation. You have 100 people show up for for something that's really controversial, like the the background spend it background checks and the attempted repeal of the abortion ban. We have an abortion ban on the books. It's been on the books since 1969. There was an effort to try to repeal it which failed because it got so twisted and contorted up and and misrepresentation it was there was a bill permitting abortion it was only repealing the law that that prosecutes people who provide the abortion, the abortions, this unconstitutional. But but but it's not to get on the abortion debate. But it does say that even at that issue, you only have you'll have a small number of people that made it not. So they have 5060 people show up in a town. It's pretty amazing, actually.

Andy  38:10  
Right? Well, this goes to one of like the core issues that we have is at a 10,000 people you had 63 people show up and they have they have voice their opinion and made a decision. The 10,000 people are receiving the the decision of 63 people, we could collectively go to these different places, whether that be at your state capital, but in your little local county office, whatever. And, and go participate.

Larry  38:41  
You're absolutely right. I was at a political event today, which, which is referred to as as a board meetings and parties are divided by precincts at the lowest level and then the number of pre six makeup award. And we have five other precincts on the ward for the entire Ward we had for voters show up for the entire war

that we allow. Now here's the problem, we were trying to like more artificial so we needed to like to chair the ward, Vice Chair, a secretary or enterprise or you can combine those. And then we're trying to like to delegate to the to be on the Rules Committee. And we just didn't have quite enough people spread out for the the offices.

And you know that that's that's how that's how now Saturday mornings, not people's most popular Time to get up and go to something political. But you know, the thousands of people that are that live in that Ward? Well over 1000 people, I don't have any thousands, but there's four people showed up.

Andy  39:46  
Well, there you go. So our democracy is ruled by thousands of people or less.

Larry  39:52  
Yes. And so your point is well taken, if we showed up at city council meetings and county commission meetings and sounded intelligent, there's a there's a good chance that we could have a far greater impact than we imagined. There's also a good chance that that that it would have no impact because their mind already be made up. But we don't know the way try. Yeah, this is this is an example where the threat of the threat of the adverse outcome and having substantial legal fees to pay on both sides because they would pay, they pay Mr. Do blinks fees as well as their own. They decided that it wasn't a well thought policy, which is a major victory for one standard justice in Connecticut.

Andy  40:34  
I suspect he's not a $50 an hour attorney.

Larry  40:37  
No, but I think you all from a very modest fee, if I read it, right will have $10,000 for if I settled now, and and we're going to be able is going to be over six figures, possibly possibly several six figures if it goes all the way through with the case.

Andy  40:52  
And in which case, since it's a if I'm not mistaken, it's a constitutional challenge. So they could be awarded it from from the constant point of view

Larry  41:00  
is that it was it felt a federal court. So yes, he was entitled to prevailing party attorneys fees and cost. And so that that was the town attorney tell them that we could lose a half million dollars on each side.

Andy  41:13  
And I think I was reading some comments have some people on and they're like, man, I'll pay a million dollars. We got to get these sickos.

Larry  41:19  
I saw some people set a price the money should not have been relevant. Yeah, but when you're looking at it that way. Yeah.

Andy  41:27  
Yeah. But when you're in Connecticut, and your roads are like crap, because you just went through a harsh winter, and you've got potholes everywhere, and you're still paying back some attorney who because you guys are a bunch of dumb asses. I think having your potholes cleaned up is probably a wiser decision. They have potholes in Connecticut.

You know, we're down to a state that the size of like a thumbtack and I don't know, million people live there. So all right, let's talk about prosecutors being bad. What's new? Haven't

Larry  41:57  
we've talked about this for this for so long? So why do you people keep talking about prosecutors?

Andy  42:03  
Because they they hold as we've said, they hold the keys. If we wanted to end mass incarceration tomorrow, the prosecutors would be like the first step, the first leg of the race, they could just stop bringing charges.

But it's just one simple way to hold bad prosecutors accountable. This comes from the appeal that state bar organizations have the power to discipline prosecutors. We have talked about it repeatedly that prosecutors withhold evidence. And this absolutely drives me bonkers. You could be somebody that is actually innocent. The prosecutor has that evidence that says you are innocent, however, they're not releasing it. Aren't you supposed to give everything up at Discovery? Isn't that part of the process that you are like required by law to process? Yeah, so

Unknown  42:47  
there's

Andy  42:48  
a process it then then you are literally denying someone there constitutionally protected, like, I'm not going to lock you up, because you should be found innocent. Now you're taking with this person's civil liberties, they should have extreme punishment for prosecute prosecutorial misconduct.

Larry  43:06  
What does that say about the world should be versus is.

Andy  43:12  
So so we should record that and put it just on some sort of button that I can just press and it'll be Larry saying this isn't the world as it should be the world as it is be?

Larry  43:21  
They it's unfortunate that that would be accountability that could be had through the disciplinary processes, and prosecutors are attorneys that are subject to actually a stringent, more stringent rule of ethical conduct to administer justice, they if you look at the rules of professional conduct, there's a special role for prosecutors. And they have they have a higher ethical obligation. And then, if the dishonor people don't hold them responsible, then it gets back to the voters are the voters got to hover because the the judges are,

could impose sanctions for misconduct. That's also rarely done. So we've actually got three ways we could we could have judges hold people accountable. Now, if they if they withheld something that resulted in a conviction. And the judge doesn't know about it, they can't sanction them for something they don't know about. But what during the adversarial process, if the if the prosecutor if the defense attorneys as demanding something that the prosecution has, the judge can order it be turned over? And and and impose sanctions if the if the if the prosecutor does not. But the other the other backstop is the voters, right? And as long as the voters are not outraged about this, I doubt very much it's going to change. And I had I had a good friend of mine tell me that, that are our department of athletics here, which the university to Mexico is in shambles. But he says I don't care what to do you think you start winning games? So you don't care what they do? He said don't long segment games. And I said, Well, that's a really strange attitude.

NCAA has all these things rules about what about recruiting and about what, what how what athletes can receive, have a way of prizes and gifts, and I will begin to understand all the rules. But we have these rules to try to keep athletics somewhat honest. And if you're willing to break the rules, I mean, that kind of says something. But But if if we as society if if we're not outraged when we hear that prosecutor that engages in this conduct, there ought to be resentment about the electorate, and we like to we like to to be honorable and ethical. And if you're gonna, if you're gonna if the ends justify the means you're not who we want an office, but I don't think the voters look at it that way. Do you?

Andy  45:40  
know, I don't know. So this is, this one really bothers me because they hold the keys. I mean, they're this one. These are one of some of the articles like this really just irked me because they are completely gaming the system?

Larry  45:55  
Well, it's a long read, but it's a good article.

Andy  45:57  
Absolutely. Well, yeah. Is there anything from the apple? That's not a long read?

Larry  46:01  
I don't recall anything. So yeah, get prepared to read a long article. But

Andy  46:08  
and then, moving on to a New York Times article Florida, Republicans push to make ex felons pay fees before they can vote. Is this any different than a poll tax?

Larry  46:18  
Maybe? Maybe, maybe. So

Andy  46:23  
there's a bill being presented to where is, you know, so Florida at the in the election, like by a pretty strong majority, they voted to give felons the rights back roads rights to vote back, except for murderers and sexual offenders, if I'm not mistaken. And then this imposes some sort of barrier for people that have court fees or other fines before they can get their voting rights back.

Larry  46:46  
Well, the question is, the language of the citizen initiative was was too good. They serve their sentence. The question is, since it wasn't defined, what it meant and serving your sentence, that's going to be up to the course to decide that this group of lawmakers believes that serving the sentence includes the jail time, the probation time, the fines and the restitution, which there's not a lot of pushback on the fines or restitution, because that is something that the court sentences YouTube, but then their court costs that are that are that are blinded by statute, if you get convicted, that you'll pay a $20 fee for this and a $48 fee for that and a $12 facilities fee to attend our brain injury fee. And

I know we have a brain injury here and a $300 Public Defender fee at $250 DNA fee and all these fees can can be significant. And the question is the way I've read this as whether those fees are part of the sentence? Well, maybe they are maybe they're not. The courts will have to determine that. But that's an example of not being specific. When you say sort of the sentence. What did that mean, serve your sentence means to serve all your incarceration, all of your supervision and to pay all finds restitution, or Korean pose fees that that could have been spelled out in the language.

Andy  48:18  
And for I don't know what the percentages the majority of people getting out of prison are very much like a, you know, $5 away from being homeless and bankrupt and all that. So having any, you know, if you're not independently wealthy, if you don't have your family out there supporting you, etc. The $400 fee here could be exactly what's going to send you perhaps back to prison, forget trying to get that paid off. So you can vote?

Larry  48:43  
Well, it's not gonna send you back to prison, because because they're beyond that, but it's going to prevent you from registering to vote. But I think I'd like to back up just a little bit. The since the men but the citizens voted on did not was not specific. The legislature was going to pass enabling legislation to clarify, and this proposal is to clarify that the that the fees imposed by the court are also part of the sentence. And I suspect being that Florida's highly conservative and dominated by conservative lawmakers, this will probably pass to make that clear that that's a part of the sentence. And then those who disagree with it may have to go to court and say, Well, no, actually, it's not a part of the sentence. And then that that legislative staff do it will be presumed valid and constitutional. And it'll probably end up limiting some people. They either go pay their fees, or they won't be able to fully restore their the right. So I suspect this is going to result in disenfranchisement, depending on how much feature? I mean, would you rush down to pay $3,000 worth of fees? If you if you wanted to vote?

Andy  49:44  
I would I would be on my list of things to do. But it wouldn't be the top priority. You would rush

Larry  49:51  
out the tech alone against your whatever mechanisms you have. So you could pay off the court? I

Andy  49:59  
I don't I don't it would be on my list. It probably wouldn't happen in that first cycle or two, I wouldn't think.

So. Yeah, there's that.

And we have an article from the washington post where this was a lot of fun. Larry, we won't be on this one for very long. But in Oklahoma Sheriff quits in protest over dangerous jail conditions. So did all the deputies including the canine with a pop print, this is in some rural county up in the northeast corner of Oklahoma, no water County. And I know it's like a dozen people and they found was it carbon monoxide in the prison. They even have their staff end up going to the hospital for carbon monoxide poisoning. And it

But hey, it's okay to keep the prisoners in there. But our staff isn't going to work. Their conditions are so deplorable that they all quit.

Larry  50:54  
Well, I'm going to actually defend the staff I've been dated put the defenders in there. I mean, not literal figure delay. They did. But but it mean, it's kind of like the thing. I would take this back to what what I said about the judges earlier in the old Carroll County, the the sheriff and the depth is they can't force the county of what would you say the name that county was no water. I guess they can't force no water to provide them a new facility. But what they can say is we won't work here.

Andy  51:23  
Oh, so this is almost like the judges?

Larry  51:26  
Yes. Does I'll tell you that they don't have the capacity to decide. But one thing and that's that they won't work in the building. Now, it begs the question, if it's so bad that they won't work there. Is it still fit to house at humans? I don't know. Without venture a guess. But I'd say it's pretty remarkable in my lifetime. But I go back to the Lincoln year and there Yes. I'm not aware of an entire Sheriff's Department walking out over jail conditions before this is this is really, really,

Andy  51:56  
hey, we're your present when Houdini broke out of that jail. What year was that? That was in the early 1900s. So I'm just wondering if you weren't around?

Larry  52:05  
I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't present. But yes, I was around.

So

Andy  52:12  
So yeah, no, I understand that the people committed some kind of offense to put them in jail. But we are the ones that should take some level of compassion that we don't put them in someplace that's actually going to kill them. We didn't sell them to death they made have a traffic traffic ticket, and they couldn't pay the bill and they're locked up in the jail now they're going to get carbon monoxide poisoning.

Larry  52:31  
Well, it's probably probably is going to have to require a federal civil rights action jail litigations gotten more complicated since the prison litigation Reform Act that was passed under the conservative domination and newts era in 96, when they pass the anti terrorism effective Disability Act so fast, a lot of a lot of bad stuff. And that that error and winning jail litigation is far more difficult because they're afforded lot more difference in terms of conditions. But if it's that bad, they might be able to get a federal judge, federal judge can't make them shut, can't make them a bill, what they can do is say you can't help humans here, because that's what

Andy  53:09  
they did in California.

Larry  53:11  
And so the citizens of no water can decide if they want to pay big bucks to because when you start farming after prisoners, you have to transport the county, whatever private facility in Oklahoma might have space, they're going to pay a per diem, then they're going to move those prisoners back and forth for courts and for things so it's a very expensive proposition. But that may be what it takes to to force them to to build a jail but but the judge can't make a builder page just so you can't house people here. And and the those federal civil rights claims usually take some time.

Andy  53:45  
Yeah, I remember, like, when I first started my adventure, that's when the California stuff was going through where they had 700 people living in a gymnasium, some ridiculous number, and there was literally there was a sock problem, they did not have enough socks to give out to people. So people would steal socks off the front of your bunk, and so you wouldn't send them off to the laundry, you would just wash them in the sink and then hang them on the end of your bunk and then people just still your socks. Pretty funny. Oh my God, that's amazing. And of course, you know, these, these are the hardened criminals. These are like the Grand Theft Auto kind of people and you're like, Hey there, these people have to be have to stay locked up. Ready to be a part of registry matters. Get links at registry matters dot CEO. If you need to be all discreet about it, contact them by email registry matters cast at gmail. com. You can call or text or ransom message to 7472 to 74477. Want to support registry matters on a monthly basis, head to patreon. com slash registry matters. Not ready to become a patron, give a five star review at Apple podcasts for Stitcher, or tell your buddies that your treatment class about the podcast. We want to send out a big heartfelt support for those on the registry. Keep fighting. Without you, we can't succeed. You make it possible. And another article from the appeal is Albany police shot a teen in the back and paralyze them. The DEA said it was justified. Now so I think that if you run away from the police, they have the right to shoot you. I don't see a problem with it

Larry  55:23  
does go into that article.

Andy  55:24  
Alright, next. And now look before anybody tried to take this little clip? And he said No, that's not true. This is this is absolutely ludicrous that you could shoot someone put a bullet in their back legit somewhere in their spine and they're paralyzed from the waist down or the chest down. And I How can they're not be consequences for that?

Larry  55:45  
Well, the prosecutors are in a tough position. And I hate to fit in prosecutors very often. But if you've watched I mean, just we had a verdict, not guilty. Just the last couple days. So this week, and a police death, it's tough to gain a conviction over over a police officer to find a jury that will convict an officer because their citizens give them so much difference. But we don't need to let it get to that point. You've heard me harp for I don't know how many episodes about we need to take control the police in terms of what weapons we allow them to you what the rules of engagement are, how we allow them to police. This is the only occupation that I know where the employers are dictated by the employees about how they conduct their job. Right? It's really quite bizarre. We get to decide what the policies are. And the police get to work and carry the equipment that we allow them to carry. They get to engage people with the rules that we allow them to engage people, and they get too far it people if we allow them to do that, under very restrained rules, not officer discretion. And if you don't like those rules, you have the same choice that the judges have it Otero County, you can choose not to be a police officer. And if we can't fill the police officer slots, then we will rethink our rules. But I don't think we'll have any problem with good police practices, because will have less out of my animosity with the police will have more community involvement with the police. We will help trust and the police and will have solve ability of crimes, what the crime solve will go up exponentially. And we will actually have a safer community if we actually were take control of our police departments. But what you see here is a police department out of control.

Andy  57:47  
Did you send me the little clip of the guy that was handcuffed to a chair and the cops were punching him in the face? Where did I

Larry  57:55  
find that one on my own? I think you found it or another listener Senate. But the problem with that,

Andy  58:00  
I know it's like, man, I just I just you could be spitting on the police and that that they did show some clips of the of the guy in the chair spitting on the police. And I appreciate that. And there are charges on the books of like, you know, projectile, human fluid or something like that. So you've got charged but man, so he spit in two officers started punching him in the face. And they did get charged and I'm pretty sure convicted. But like, I don't think that's what the police are supposed to do.

Larry  58:30  
So I don't think so either. But it's only the Department of Justice was under the previous administration was being very active and trying to rein in police. They tried to curtail the amount of equipment that they were getting from the from the military. And they were they were going in investigating police agencies across the country and challenging them on their practices. But this administration has turned all that back. And there's rumors that they're even going to to relieve the departments that have agreed to consent orders, what they what they call a consent decree, that they're going to let those agencies out. I have not seen anything over the rumor. So don't I'm not saying that the consent decrees are going to be revoked tomorrow. But that's

Andy  59:12  
what's the consent of

Larry  59:15  
where we're parties agree to make changes. So when these police agencies get under the

microscope, they end up with a consent decree all over the country, we have one here in Albuquerque, where the police were just shooting so many people because of their bad pop practices. So you know, the rules of engagement that allowed them to, I mean,

there's people that that you can't imagine that a shot, but that were real justified. And the one case where they were they were the prosecutor had the audacity to prosecute the boy case, the jury found a deadlock did and a special prosecutor decided it wasn't gonna try it again, was going to try the case again, because there was no hope of gaining conviction. But these these things are tough because the citizens don't see there any problems with it, right? Go out and take your poll and ask people, if the cop shops open the bag, you have a problem with it. Our little snarky playfulness we were doing. Most people would agree with that. They said, well, they should have been running from the cops. Right. Obviously, they had some kind of, they must have been doing something really bad. That's why they're running it. So the cop was keeping us safe by shoot him in the back. no telling what they were up to

Andy  1:00:21  
write. This article comes from the Santa Fe New Mexican bill before governor give sex abuse victims more time to seek justice. Think this is in your backyard. Larry, you probably can speak pretty much as a voice of authority on this particular subject.

Unknown  1:00:36  
I can, and I will.

Larry  1:00:39  
This is a this is a bill that is all but destined to be signed Senate Bill 55. And it was it's been something that they've pushing across the country to lengthen the statute limitations or abolish it. This was on the criminal side.

The the the it was introduced, as they build it with remove the statute limitations for any crime against a minor for a sexual offense or child abuse. And as the as the bill went through the process, it got amended several times in it, it's less bad now, the one that government's going to get to sign and I believe is for certain that she will sign it. But the bill as as as, as its, as it stands was a dramatic improvement from our perspective, because going from no statute of limitations is what the what what the proponents want, we ended up with raising the statute limitations to only age 30. And 830 is a six year increase from the present statue, because now the statute run six years from when they turn 18. So now it's going to run 12 years from when they turn 18. And that it there'll be universal defenses down to criminal sexual penetration. And it dropped the criminal sexual contact in the child abuse. So we've got a narrower universe of offenses that we've got a shorter period of time, there still pretty old, if someone's nine, dead lead something you've got 21 years. So it, but but you'll have to admit that that is better than what we could have had asked the people in Illinois and other states where they just abolish the statute limitations all together. I mean, we we we, we consider it a major victory to contain the damage this level, but these people won't stop, they'll come back and future sessions and they'll want to raise it a higher and higher and without, without at advocates there. On the other side, they will succeed.

Andy  1:02:31  
And so whereas something like this is going through, how many different times do you have to try and derail it, roadblock it? Stop it, whatever, how many different opportunities are there throughout the process?

Larry  1:02:47  
Well, it depends on depends on the state of their process of it, are our processes here or make it more likely to be able to, to alter legislation become with we have five bills to multiple committees. So often you see a bill introduced and if it's introduced in the house representatives that'll get assigned to one house committee. And this data if it gets introduced as a house bill is going to be assigned to to House committees, possibly three but but but almost always two. And then if it makes it through that process that gets a full approval the house and gets introduced to the Senate is going to get assigned to to work committees on that side. So this star does and Senate Bill. So it had to go through that process of to Senate Committees senate floor that it had to go through the house, edit, it got amended in the Senate, and the Senate Judiciary Committee, and then it got voted out of the senate they had they had lower the age to 35. Then it goes over to the house. And they do some more work on it. It gets admitted. And the second committee which happened to be the House Judiciary Committee, and then the House voted out then it had to go back to the Senate to be concurred with because it was not the same building left the Senate. So it had to go back to this to the Senate for concurrence.

Andy  1:04:01  
This is one of the things that I was sort of trying to bring up before with the Stacey Abrams thing. In a case like this, you could then say so and so voted against removing the statute of limitations because they didn't like the bill that only increased it to 30. But they wanted to make it just, you know, in perpetuity, you could then twist the words around and say the person voted against it. Because it wasn't what they wanted. They chose to vote for nothing versus something along the way.

Larry  1:04:32  
Good. Say that, that that that didn't happen this case, one Oh,

Andy  1:04:35  
I know, I know. I'm just try to use this as like an outline for where things get twisted. And where people then get vote against. I'm sort of changing subjects a little bit. But that that's where this is kind of like the subject that I was going after, when I was talking about Stacey Abrams.

Larry  1:04:49  
Well, you could happen or it could be an amendment, somebody could vote against the event. But the you can put spin on everything, the average voter are going to handle that spin. Right? The average voter is going to going to do one or two things, they're either going to tune out, or they're going to vote according to what their beliefs are. If they believe democrats are bad, they're going to vote against them. If they believe republicans are bad, they're going to vote against.

Yeah, yeah, average person. There's too many transactions like that go on in the legislature for the average person to have the time or the the expertise to follow it, you'd have to have a great deal of knowledge more than the average person has to dissect all of what's going on. And you have to understand the process. And it's not things that most people understand. So you can put bad spin on it, you can make someone look bad. And that's what happens in politics, when you try to get elected. You can either try to run on what you want to do, or you can make the other person look bad. And it seems like it as country that more and more running a tearing another person down seems to be more and more the way to go.

Andy  1:05:54  
Ah, so here we go. Here's another state that has has reduced the step you to let more guess increase the statute limitations, reduce Craig time increase, it's like you could word it from the front side of the backside dependent anyway. So here's another state that has done something similar to what Maryland did.

Larry  1:06:11  
Marilyn has done that has no statute. So that kind of Yep. Forever. It has been that way for all felonies or Maryland for a number of years, as it

so well. It's the Illinois, Illinois because of pastor former House Speaker Hastert they it but it's a it's a nationwide phenomenal? Yeah,

Andy  1:06:29  
yeah. And if it wasn't obvious, sort of leading up to this, at the beginning of the show, I talked about Mike leaving us the happy comments. And but Mike left a voicemail message that we're going to kind of uses the feature segment. But throughout the program, I've been kind of trying to pepper, what I think would be questions that go along with what Mike is asking about how does the process of a bill move through the system and say, here's a Mike's voicemail.

Unknown  1:06:58  
Hey, guys, just wanted to call and leave a quick comment. And one question. First comment is thank you guys for doing what you do. My charges are close to 30 years old. And I've been on the registry since the day it started, which was over 23 years ago in the great state of Florida. And for someone like me, do not like to use any kind of social media, I'd rather get my information direct and clear, and not so much hearsay and hate speeches you hear on social media. So thank you guys for providing that platform. And my one question is for Larry, Larry, pretend I have never had any kind of education or any training on how a bill would be passed through the Senate in the house in the state of Florida. Could you give me a quick, easy to understand rundown on how bills introduced how it goes to the process and what it says when it's put into law when it's actually made law. I would greatly appreciate it. I'm falling several bills in the state of Florida and would just like to get that information. And last but not least, I really appreciate what you guys do. And the big old a floppy to anybody who don't appreciate the park. Yeah, I think you guys are great. And have a good weekend. And hopefully, very soon.

Andy  1:08:13  
Later, that's a three si p episode. I think

Larry  1:08:16  
that's a three peat trifecta.

Andy  1:08:21  
And I know that Mike has was a little bit vague. And Larry, it turns out that I emailed the wrong Mike to try and see if he would come on the show tonight. He is at 100% willing to do it. And we'll have him on next week. But maybe we can start building the framework around what he's talking about. And hovering over some basics. We can't we can.

She said we can add. And then you know, then Mike can feedback with some some questions, and maybe we can have them on and try and go through some dialogue. This is this is a gigantic subject, though.

Larry  1:08:54  
It is and and I touched on a little bit with Senate Bill 55. You're talking about the statute limitations? Well, most of the majority of the states have part time legislature is a meeting these people this is not their full time occupation. And, and ours ours is the this state that has no salary, they get a per per day allowance of like $150 when they're in session, which will not cover your expenses for being an expensive city like Santa Fe. But so so they they don't have they don't have very much in the way of staff support. So like legislation is typically brought to a lawmaker as an idea. In some cases or a specific proposal, someone's already drafted up something. And since I'm thinking maybe only one state you can introduce anything in the legislature has to be introduced by law Baker, I hear this full day Attorney General reduced it now the Attorney General Didn't he can do for them thing. Their Attorney General found, the Attorney General's Office found willing senator or representative to carry the legislation for them, but they didn't introduce anything. And so so what happens is an idea is brought to a lawmaker, or a proposal that's already been written up. And some form is brought to a lawmaker and ask, we need a law. In the case of the statue of limitations, it's the advocacy organizations who are advocating on behalf of victims who have been traumatized A long time ago who have not had any redress of their grievances, because the statue of limitations has expired. And and people can't be prosecuted. And they're saying this should not go on and they take they find a willing lawmaker or sometimes like group of lawmakers, and they draft up something, what you've what you care to law, Baker is not usually the way it's introduced. Because the bill is going to try to match the statutory language that's already in place if there's already language, so they're going to try, they're going to try to draft it and conform us to to hell there that you their statutes already read. So there they have a legislative drafting service. And every legislature here we call it the Legislative Council service, don't know what they call it, Florida, but they draft these things up and get them in and file format to be introduced. And when they're introduced as legislation that they refer to that as jack getting the bill. So they'll they'll they'll put the sponsors name on it. It'll it'll be assigned to bill number. And it's it's it's introduced into, if it's a if it's a house member of the House of Representatives, it'll be given a house bill number. If that's the Senate Bill, it'd be given a Senate bill number, and they usually start at one.

Andy  1:11:41  
And if it's in Nebraska, they have some weird letter combination that

Larry  1:11:45  
call it lb because it's legislative bill.

They don't have they don't have. But in most states, you said HP, or an sp number. And they usually start at one some of the numbers are there other numbers are reserved, like our house bill, health build, one is always going to be what we call the feed bill, it is the appropriation to pay for the session. So health don't want is always going to be the female House Bill Two is always going to be the general Appropriations Act that funds most of the state government. So House Bill wanted to have already been spoken for. So you're not going to get one or two. If you go into file something the first day they open profiling, you're not you're not going to get that number, you're going to get House Bill three or more. But But anyway, you'll get you'll get a get a number what it's it's read on the floor. First reading us we read read on the floor. This is a proposal by Senator so and so representative so and so having been read twice by tile, and it gets referred to a committee because at our session that just concluded a 60 day session, we had 600 plus house bills and 600 plus Senate bills and we had 60 days. So let's say let's just say it's a 1300 bills, if you divide 1300 hundred divided by 60. And you have only only talking

Andy  1:13:03  
about working days to right, you're not talking Nestle weekends to

Larry  1:13:07  
counter base our senses, we would we would had to the full legislature would have to consider 21 builds a day.

Andy  1:13:15  
It's a lot of bills, man.

Larry  1:13:17  
So that would be you would take public testimony on 21 bills per day can't be done. Right. What they do is after it's introduced, they look at the subject matter and they assign it to an appropriate committee. And if you look at your legislative website, you'll see the list of standing committees, almost everything related to criminal justice is going to be referred to something that's approximating a Judiciary Committee and and the Maryland Senate, they call it judicial proceedings, but in our state, they call it the Judiciary Committee, but that's going to get well in our state. It says it's going to get to committee referrals that will get the Judiciary Committee and it will get in the house if it's a house be able to get the house consumer and Public Affairs Committee in it get the House Appropriations and finance committee is the third committee referral which is going to have significant financial impact, in addition to the public policy aspect, in addition to the legal aspect of it's going to have significant financial cost, it may get a third committee. Well, the order that it's going to be heard and those committees is assigned in our state by the leadership. So its first first house consumer public affairs, they don't judiciary and then older appropriation of finance if it got a third committee. So those committee chairs decide when they're going to schedule public comment and debate on that bill. We are the only state on know for we actually debate the bill with the public watching and they take a vote with the public watching after they've heard public comment. So they will actually when they call the building committee, they'll say it just helps build number number 27. Is anybody here in the room and support House Bill 27 Show of hands 12 hands go up and they say, okay, anybody in opposition 12 hands go up, they say okay, we're going to take public comment. And and we're going to limit you to two minutes each or three minutes each. And and people start making their comments. And at the end of the comment when there's no other comment, then the members will begin to bait at that point the public no longer participates. They're not debating you. They're debating themselves. And they go into debate and talking about the pros and cons about what they see as pros and cons taking into consideration what was said. And they generally vote to either to advance it with a do pass recommendation, or they can make it members to it. And and advanced it will do pass recommendation, or they can table it in our system, meaning that that just think it doesn't fit to go any further. And they'll be emotion to table. And they'll actually take a vote right then to do one of those things that most of the other states, they they go into the bowels of the capital somewhere at three o'clock in the morning with big fat cigars. And they take a vote later. And I'm over described because they actually probably hold most of the votes in public. But they go ahead and hear as many bills as they can public comment. And then they go into another session and they have the debate. But we don't do it that way. We have the debate with your eyeballs, who took the time to travel to the capital, to see how the debate goes and what their what the outcome is going to be. The downside to that is that they might have 14 bill scheduled that day. And a lot of people showed up on seven of the bills. And that kills all the time they've got and the seven other people bills that were scheduled to have to say We're really sorry, we're not going to get to these bills today. We really appreciate you guys traveling, coming up, but we're gonna have to roll these over. And they get rescheduled for another day. And then you get pissed off because it's some giant conspiracy that they did to silence public comment. And it was no conspiracy at all. They actually had the public comment and there was too much of it and let it get to as many bills on the schedule. But but in other states, they you should try to hear the bills. And then they they have the debate and they vote later. But it will it move through the committee process. So he would need to find out in Florida. How many committees does a bill typically get signed to? Well, what what what's going to happen and committee is going to be what largely determined sport, how successful that bill is

about to ask?

Andy  1:17:09  
Well, I was I even wanted to like roll back. He said there are I think you said three bills may be said for me. Have you said two bills that he's currently following aren't the state legislative sessions over? Some are some are not. I guess I'm thinking now now that I'm thinking about it. So Florida being kind of a pretty ginormous state that they probably have around legislation, or let

Larry  1:17:29  
us know they do have year round. But but we can take a quick look but but some some some some run year round. And some have much longer sessions, we have one of the shorter sessions of the country. But But he needs to figure out by looking at the legendary website, the build numbers, it should tell him what committee that they've been assigned to or what group of committees they've been assigned to. And the chair, the chair of those committees are so important because they control the calendar and I say this and people roll their eyes and they they they get frustrated, but the majority party gets to have all the chairs, right? That means the person who is referred to as Madam Chair, or Mr. Chair is going to be the majority party. So in the case of Florida, last time I looked it was heavily Republican, so all the committee chair was going to be Republicans. And they're going to have the majority of the members in proportion to their ratio. So if they have 70% of the seats in the House, they're going to have 7070 if there's a 70 hundred members of the house representatives in Florida and the Republicans have 70 of those seats, the ratio of the committee's is going to be about 70%. So if it's a if it's 20 member committee, they're going to have at least 14 of the seats. But so you've got 14 Democrats, I mean 14 Republicans and Democrats on the commitment

Andy  1:18:50  
to use it to use an extreme example of controlling the calendar. Mitch McConnell not bringing Merrick Garland to the floor that he was he had the control to do that it was a dick move but he had the control to do that.

Larry  1:19:03  
Under the rules It was unprecedented but he had the heat Hey being the the majority be the big bang and leadership all he would have had have done is told up like Chairman Grassley from I was it it'd be really nice if we didn't have any hearings on garland and and grassy would have said Yes, sir. Because the grassy had said No, sir. The chairman ships are assigned by the leadership and you can find yourself quickly out in the with your office redone. And you can find yourself not sharing anything and you can find yourself stripped of your committees. And

Andy  1:19:38  
I did they do that to somebody somebody made some really atrocious comment, and then they like, wasn't somebody made Rick, Rick? Oh, God, I can't think of his name. He made some pretty pretty horrible racist statements. And they, they stripped him of everything. I think

Larry  1:19:51  
that's it happens happens all throughout the ages Willie Brown one. But he was he was a California. He got script, he ultimately came back became speaker, but they had him basically, closet. Because

so, so much McConnell would have been able to have and he did not he would have he was able to make sure that there were no committee hearings held, confirm, girl, it was unprecedented. But he had the power. And just because you have the power doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It just means the constitutional thing to do. And I tell people just call something is constitutional, doesn't make it right. Just go something you don't like something that doesn't make it unconstitutional.

Andy  1:20:33  
And I only wanted to bring that up, because I would imagine many people would have had at least heard grumblings about that whole thing, something going on in your little local state house, you know, some sort of insignificant Bell, you're not going to hear about these things being pushed off and so forth. But that was just my example of showing where controlling the the calendar and so forth, you have that control over what gets hurt and what doesn't. Absolutely bills can die

Larry  1:20:57  
an agonizing death and committee if the if the chairperson of the committee doesn't want that bill to move. But let's just say the bill, let's say the bill does move, let's say it gets one committee assignment in the Florida house is a house bill and it gets signed the Judiciary Committee and they give it a do pass that it's going to go to the floor of the house, or a more likely than not, it's going to pass because the committed is entrusted with having the expertise does reviewed it and said it's good, good legislation,

Andy  1:21:24  
because the people controlling the Farm Bill don't necessarily know about the criminal justice stuff, and vice versa. So they just go along with what the committee unless they have some sort of insight or whatever expertise in it, but they're going to go along with what committee said because they're the experts. They are that's generally the

Larry  1:21:39  
rule, not things do. We can talk about a building that fell on the floor here, there's a view that film.

But but as a normal, everyday bill, if it gets passed, the committee or committees that's been assigned to, there's a very good chances going to pass on the floor. There's a such thing as amending bills on the floor, they off the floor minute this can be done. So if something does get out of committee and you feel really strongly about it, then you're you're you need to get to your member of that chamber. And sad like to see a for men but done and then look at you like you're rolled your eyes and they'll they'll realize that you actually know a little bit about you're talking about and say this is bad, here's why. And specifically to make it better, we need to do a board member. And that can be done on the floor. And mimics can be done. They can actually even substitute to build for that's even less common. But but it can be done. And and the the the bill can be changed. But once it let's say hypothetically that house bill passes the house that it's going to move over to the other side of the of the rotunda, if they have a round capital, and it's going to be go through the same process as it went through, it's going to be assigned to water more committees. And it's going to go through another vetting with the other side to the other side of the rotunda. That would be just flip it over if it was if it started as a Senate Bill is going to come over of the House side. If it's if it's a house bill is going to go to the Senate side. Identical bill has to pass both sides of the rotunda. And there's processes if the bills change to reconcile those bills, the first process is it like I said at our Senate Bill 55. It got changed in the house. So once the house made a members to it, then it had to go back to the Senate, the first step was to take go back to the Senate and say, Do you like these amendments that the House did? And the sponsor the senate said absolutely, I'm not going to risk by Bill dying. So I would urge by members to concur with it. That's the first step. If they could occur, that ends the the inquiry. If they don't concur, if they reject the premise, then it the the the amending chamber is asked if they will receive on the amendment. So you would you would say if the senate sponsor of Bill 55 had said I don't like that man, but then hit the house would be asked if they would like to receive and if the house refuses to receive this, like we're sticking with our members, then you've got you've got to need to have a conference at that point. Because you've got you got two different versions of the bill, you've got the Senate Bill is that left the city, you've got the house bill, and you have to go go into conference and see if you can work it out. And this is where it gets really complicated to the people because they think something sinister happens when Bill bill skills to conference. When you go to conference, you get you get representatives of the Senate and representatives of the house, they hammer out an agreement and the only vote you get as a member is to accept the recommendations or reject them. There's no friendly amendment. But once the conferees come to an agreement, there's that you can debate till you're blue in the face, but there's no more changes. This is the deal. So they you should take a voice vote to approve the report of the conference. And people think there's something sinister about that. And there's nothing sinister, it's the way the system works. If you if you if you try to change it, then you want do the work of the conference and the whole process dies.

Andy  1:25:03  
Ah, I think we should leave it there. My eyes are starting to roll in the back of my head.

Larry  1:25:08  
Well, that's why I was telling you that when he comes on, they can get more specific because I know numbers and tell us where they are in the process. Maybe he can investigate health, how the legislation has assigned in Florida and and give us some more specifics. But I gave you some broad generalities of health, yes, move through, through them through legislator processes. And ours is designed to make sure that bad things don't get through. But to get through, they do get through

to try to prevent bad things. Also good things don't get through. Right? Because it's designed to be a very deliberate process. A bad bill almost got through having to do with towing vehicles. We might have to

Andy  1:25:50  
have story about that at some point.

Larry  1:25:52  
Yes, the way we can we can have that story. But yeah, so bad bill almost got through and I was able to assist in the process. So once once they realized how bad it was it did not get through.

Unknown  1:26:05  
Hmm.

Andy  1:26:06  
Well, Larry, how can people find us and get in touch with us?

Larry  1:26:11  
They have a whole plethora of mechanisms to reach us plethora,

Andy  1:26:14  
you're bringing up the 50 cent words.

Larry  1:26:17  
But yes, there's there's a plethora. And I would prefer we had such good quality calls I would prefer to take they reach the way that that we had three tonight the trifecta by calling 747-227-4477. And if you didn't get that number, you can hit pause and replay. Right Andy?

Andy  1:26:39  
Yes, if you're listening Well, yeah, regardless, it's not live radio. So you could totally hit pause. Why don't you go find a podcast app and click, you know, search for registry matters and click download and then it just shows up on your phone. I don't understand why everyone doesn't do this. This makes the most sense to me.

Larry  1:26:55  
But if you want to, if you want to find us I think we're at registering matters dots the O co Hmm. And you can sign up to be notified right? You can get subscribed or registry matters podcast.

Andy  1:27:11  
Yes, you will get an email message coming out that when when the episode is released generally at 1159 on Monday night.

Larry  1:27:18  
And if you would like to do the high tech communication and send us a question you can do that it registry matters cast@gmail.com

Andy  1:27:29  
what is the absolute best way to support the podcast?

Larry  1:27:32  
Well, I'm disappointed no one has taken us up on this one

Andy  1:27:35  
but it's really sad.

If no one How about this if no one takes us up on that deal by the end of the year how about we just shut the whole thing down?

Larry  1:27:44  
So it's you can become a patron and and how does it how do they do that they go to patreon.com and how do you spell Patreon just to make sure that people are able to find us p at so Pat re on pa te r e o n.com slash registry matters.

Andy  1:28:05  
We are registering matters everywhere.

Larry  1:28:07  
And and you were encouraging people to let's say we said the gross pay and then nobody did that then we said that pay and no one's done that so

Andy  1:28:18  
maybe maybe people should send us winning lottery tickets

Larry  1:28:22  
or on a serious note any amount as low as little as $1 per month. It the ducks automatically and and it doesn't charge you the fee for the charges $1 but doesn't charge you a fee that comes out of our side.

Andy  1:28:38  
It does they charge us some some handling and maintenance fees and so forth. So

Larry  1:28:44  
$1 a month would be fantastic. We're trying to reach 100 patrons by the end of the year.

Andy  1:28:49  
And and lastly we have this discord thing and there's a question and discord tonight we have like a whole bunch of people listening in over on Discord. We even have Brenda's over there from Newcastle, the ED from from yourself. But there's a question and it's totally directed at you, Larry ready for a impromptu question. I reconcile. All right. So ask Larry what jail conditions were like at the turn of the century?

Larry  1:29:10  
Well, we, in some ways that were better, because we didn't have his evil back there with jails. And there was a lot more likes in terms of you look at all Western shows how they have contact visits and like they could they could hug and it could bring food and it wasn't we're

Andy  1:29:27  
talking about the 19th century we're talking about the turn from 18 to 1900. Right.

Larry  1:29:32  
Yeah, that's what I'm saying back. Okay. So, if you like if you look at Gunsmoke and how the jail's wrote back and Festus as days that the security security, security wasn't like like it is today. And so in some ways, it was better in terms of how the inmates were treated. And access to end of the families. In some ways it was worse because the facilities were not so good. But then again, the facilities everybody lived and worked so good. And also I guess, when you compare it to what everyone live like in the cabins without plumbing, I guess it was comparable. All right, don't remember I don't remember because we've had we've had we've had running water and plumbing for for for the majority of my life. I mean, we started having having plumbing in the early 1900s. And cities that I just I just can't remember back in the link and days as well as I wish I could.

Andy  1:30:22  
Well, yeah, it was a while ago, it was a while ago.

Larry  1:30:26  
It was I can remember I can remember that. Tell it that telegraph. They were they were going deep thing though.

Andy  1:30:31  
Do you know Morse code there?

I can I assume you don't know Morse code?

Larry  1:30:37  
I don't. But I remember I remember that they pay people to buy clicks on the telegraph.

Andy  1:30:41  
Absolutely. All right. Let's get out of here before we get completely stupid.

I appreciate it. As always, Larry, have a great night and I will talk to you soon. All

Larry  1:30:50  
right. Thanks, Andy.

Unknown  1:30:51  
All right. Take care. Bye bye. Thank you for

Unknown  1:30:54  
joining us here at FYI P and we hope you will join us again on our next broadcast.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai