Andy 0:00 Recording live from FYP Studios, east and west transmitting across the internet. This is Episode 88 of registering matters. This is the real 88. Larry, last time you tried to trick me with the fake 88. Larry 0:11 This is a real 8888 How are you? Well, I'm doing fine except for a tooth. That's giving a little bit of problem. Andy 0:21 I don't think your shower head thing can fix this. Larry 0:23 Now, I don't think that but that's what this was a good one on me though. So for those of those of you who have ever had a root canal, you probably don't try to have if you could avoid them. So I had a root canal in 1974, and one of my rear bowlers. And the crowd eventually came off here a few weeks ago, and I went to the dentist. And the dentist told me that he said, Well, you only had a partial root canal 1974. He said, I would advise you to have a root canal now, before he said, I don't advise crowding that tooth again. I said, Well, you know, that's really nice. If you are appreciate your advice, I said, but I'd like to crown a tooth again. And we'll see what happens. I said, What is the probability it's going to flare up? He said, the probability is better, that it will then it won't as well, the boarded root canal is worth it. So so I'm gonna take my chance. You're gonna, he says, you're going to take a chance on destroying the tooth, the crown, he said, us? Well, then we can avoid that by just putting up a temporary cement. And I said, How quickly will the flare up calm pace the problem within a month? I said, All right, well, then we'll put the crown on the temporary cement. And I said, and then we'll see who gets to be right. I said, either, I'll be right, you'll be right. And, well, it's been just shy of a month, and the tooth has begun to flare up. So it looks like I'm gonna have to go back to the dentist and say, You told me so. So, but the only difference is when someone tells me so when I'm wrong, I'll go back and say, Yep, you told me so. It's not a problem for me at all. He his experience was, was you unique, 30 years of it. I have told Dennis on other things where I thought that we could do it a different way. Most of the time until now I've been right. But on this time, it appears that unless it magically cures itself was just not going to I'm going to have to have a root canal. Andy 2:08 That is super exciting, because root canals are the best thing ever. Larry 2:12 So but but I do expect him to say I told you so because I'm gonna say you told me so. It won't be necessary for him to say that. This is right. Unknown Speaker 2:21 Oh, so you're gonna beat him to the punch? Larry 2:23 I've got to say, here I am. And you told me so. Andy 2:26 Well, hey, Larry, we have some amazing breaking news. And this is if you haven't heard of this yet, especially by the time you get this podcast. Unknown Speaker 2:36 You're living under a rock. That's right. This was definitely Larry 2:39 firing up the do you sound before this? Andy 2:42 Oh, yeah, definitely. Um, oh, wait. Oh, you couldn't hear it? Hey, the new sound or did play though. Um, I know, I didn't have a pushing out. But uh, hey, there was this guy, Jeffrey Epstein, we've talked about kind of recently was allegedly like trafficking and young underage girls for profit, whatnot. He decided to commit suicide today in a federal prison or jail, I guess it would be federal Larry 3:06 holding. What's it called? What if it serves both purposes? It holds people that have been convicted, but mostly pre trial detention and Metropolitan Manhattan, the Metropolitan correctional Correctional Center in Manhattan. I don't think we can be completely clear, it's a suicide. I've heard some banter out there that there might might have been assisted. But right. But we'll have to wait till the official report comes out. Yes. Andy 3:31 And so we'll get more into that at the end of the show. But I just wanted to tease that up front. Because that as far as like late breaking news, that probably is one of the biggest things that we've ever had happen, especially the day of the show. Larry 3:43 Yes, and this would definitely be big news, because the ramifications I'm going to talk about later, when I read my statement are going to be so horrendous that it's going to be we'll hear about Epstein for a long time to come. Andy 3:57 Right. Right. Right. Right, right. But on another note, then we have Mike who is a longtime patron at a New Jersey, and he's going to join us, at least for a little while. And I think he's going to stick around for the whole thing. But he is a truck driver, and it seemed appropriate. We do get comments. I'm sure you do it like the normal level like oh, my God, what am I supposed to do? You know, no one will hire me this and that. I know that truck drivers are like in super heavy demand. And it seems like one of those kinds of fields that doesn't require a lot of background checks, necessarily, depending on where and also it doesn't require a lot of education or training and so forth. So it's a low barrier to get into and it pays reasonably well. So we've got Mike joining us. Hello, Mike. How are you? Unknown Speaker 4:41 Hi, Andy, how you doing today? doing very well. And Andy 4:44 And you? You were fortunate. I was fortunate about what three weeks ago he were in town. And so we had a lunch dinner a couple times. Unknown Speaker 4:51 Yep. Yeah, it was very nice to meet you. Andy 4:54 And you said I was taller. Unknown Speaker 4:57 Yeah. And a little bit older than I thought you were? Andy 4:59 Oh, man. Wait, why don't you twist that? That while it's in my back? Can you tell me real quick? Thanks. Sure. You had you had a an interesting little transition halfway recently in your job situation from an over the road driver to what did you just get certified as Unknown Speaker 5:16 I got certified as hazmat, which means I can legally transport a bomb around the country with basically explosives, radioactive materials, almost anything. And I just happen to be looking for a local job so I can be home every day transporting fuel to gas stations. All right now Andy 5:36 I've met you and the thought of you transporting a bomb sounds horrifying? Unknown Speaker 5:39 Why I drive actually. Andy 5:43 Just kidding. I'm just messing with you. Um, well, why wouldn't you be able to do hazmat just generally speaking, being one of quote unquote, our people? Unknown Speaker 5:55 Well, that I have no idea, the guidelines. This goes through the TSA, the Transportation Safety Administration, it's actually federal government, which is part of the Homeland Security Department. So you have to get fingerprints done. And you have to go through a background check. There are some crimes that you can commit that permanently ban you. And a link to those will be in the show notes. But just a quick overview of it. It's the Espionage drug manufacturing, stuff like that will keep you permanently disqualified from getting a hazmat endorsement. And your major league felonies, your four star felonies will usually require you to be out of prison for at least five years, which I just celebrated. And at least seven years from your last conviction. Okay. I don't think you can. I don't know what it says in there. If Larry looks over it, he could probably be more specific about it. But I don't see anything in there that says about being on parole or probation, just released from prison or conviction date. So it is possible that somebody might be able to get it, but then your state might put a restriction on it. Andy 7:16 Right, right. Right. Right. Um, Larry, do you want to chime in? Larry 7:20 Well, I would, I would say that that those who are under supervision probably are not going to be afforded the opportunity to travel out of the state, though there are a few exceptions, but but that's very tightly regimented, but those who are off all forms of supervision. But but Mike, what about if you're in a state, if you're doing over the road, and you happen to be in a state more than 24 hours? What How do you deal with the burst of radiation, that sort of thing suddenly comes out of your body? And all of a sudden, the Geiger counters light up and they come swarming into to say, you're here on the 24 hour, your one minute over? What do you do about that? Unknown Speaker 7:54 Well, that's where Larry is actually given out fake news, because I told him the other day that I actually did Bye, Geiger counter. And when I cross state lines, I in fact, did not admit radio. Andy 8:04 I've heard of this, I've heard of like, you know, that 72, the, you know, 48 hours that you like light everything up in there. They're like predator drones flying around, like, we got one go in target. Larry 8:16 So but but element on the perception is reality on that, and for a lot of people and the fear of the consequences are so horrendous, that that people would worry about that. So it would be a consideration for people who are going to drive particular I think and states where it's a really short window of time. I know we've got the 48 hour state of Vegas, Nevada. But but the the reality is that I have yet to see a criminal prosecution. And I'm challenging the listeners to please provide me one where it says offender was in our state 73 hours, and we discovered them. And they were here temporarily, but that's irrelevant. They were here 70 three hours, if that's the basis for the prosecution, I've never seen it on the national criminal defense lawyers lists, or I've never seen it on our state criminal Chancellor's list or I have never heard about it with an arsenal listserv. I have never heard about one of these prosecutions for they just simply were in a state for a few hours beyond whatever time that they that they require that state in so many states, it's not even clear what's required because there is no provision for being present. It's just that these these practices have have sprung up for a lot of law enforcement have said, well, it stands to reason if you have to register within 72 hours of becoming a resident, it stands to reason in our opinion that you have to register with us every two hours of being physically present. But the law doesn't actually say that. But but but in terms of as you're driving, or would you as as a driver or are you going to find yourself in a position where either a you would you would be in a state too long. Or be you might have a provision in some states for you have to notify your departing status, you're going to be out of state. So if the state of Alabama says you're going to leave, if you're going to leave our state, you have to give a travel partner to obtain a travel permit, even though you're not under supervision, that would pretty well knock that person out of Alabama if they were based or wouldn't it? Unknown Speaker 10:15 I would imagine so it would depend on the laws in your state. Luckily for me, I'm not on probation. I'm not on parole, I maxed out my time. So only the registration requirements affect me and a New Jersey, for me, they're actually pretty lacks because my conviction was back in the 90s. Before all of this happened, so I don't have to report when I'm leaving the state, I don't have I don't have any residency restrictions. I a lot of that stuff doesn't affect me anything with the internet, I don't have to tell them anything about it. If if they want to search anything, they got to treat me like anybody else get a warrant. And I had to use the internet for my job just to transmit documents in such. But as far as a job for people this would you would think that people would actually want people on the registry to have these types of jobs. Because when you have a federal law that says now you're driving has to be monitored, right? When you drive where you stop, it's all GPS monitored everything that people would you think they would love that? Well, because now they get to know where you are even if you aren't subjected to, to GPS regulations like they have in some states. Now you're talking crazy Larry 11:33 talk. Now that makes too much sense. Andy 11:35 I was just going to say Larry, can we like introduce policies in states that say, Hey, if you're on the registry, you you will be a truck driver for hazmat that way we can. Larry 11:47 Well, a lot of things I'd be afraid to say makes perfect sense. But that having a job like that from the registrar's point of view, since you're sent your truck is monitored, if someone were to make an allegation against you and you said do that you did something in Kansas City on the GPS showed you were never anywhere near Kansas City, they would have to put forth a theory that your truck self operated itself, absolute your presence, and you've somehow got into Kansas City, and it would serve as a protection for those but but this is a field for the job, the the population of truck drivers is aging so rapidly, yeah, that they're so desperate for drivers that I would think that they would be willing to take take the opportunity to her heart people, even with this type of conviction, because they need more body setting these cabs, if they don't have that they're going to have to either, they're gonna have to put a driverless vehicles on the road, because they just don't have the it's like many of our professionals for the people that occupy those professions. They're shrinking in numbers, because of their age, the farming community is dying, that that's an older profession, by and large, truck drivers are aging out. Unknown Speaker 12:57 You mean there's farmers, Unknown Speaker 13:00 food just doesn't come from the grocery stores? Larry 13:02 Well, it does just come from the grocery stores. But the people who work those fields, even though they they operate nice, elaborate machinery, is still it's still done a lot of human involvement. And those humans are, by and large, are older and older and older doing those jobs. Unknown Speaker 13:19 And a lot of it came through me too, because I used to have a route going from New Jersey to California and back and on the way back, I would bring produce back tomatoes, oranges, strawberries, anything produce. Andy 13:32 Let me ask you this question. And I don't I don't want to I want to avoid getting into your personal details. But can you speak in a general sense about the pay range for someone, if you are, let's say you're a non hazmat driver, and you're driving local, just like I don't know, like a gravel truck or something like that. Moving On Up to an over the road and then moving in, I'm assuming that there's bonus money, so to speak for being hazmat. Unknown Speaker 13:56 Not necessarily most bonuses for companies come from safety bonuses. So if you don't speed you don't get tickets, you follow safety regulations, all that then usually you get a quarterly bonus, or maybe even a monthly bonus depending on how long you've been there. But as far as the the hazmat right now, the pay is going to be about the same as I made before. But I'm going to have the benefit of being home every day, I'm going to have the benefit of being an employee instead of an independent contractor. And I'm going to have a lot better medical and dental and everything insurance. Okay. Andy 14:34 Do you think that since your your conviction was so far long ago, how do you think you know, if someone only had like a five year and I don't want to say only as in like only only but yours was so much longer ago versus so much more recent? Do you think that impacts how much you have been afforded the privilege? If that's the right way to word it? Unknown Speaker 14:55 Yes, I do. Actually, my attorney thinks that I am the the only person in New Jersey that has such lacks restriction. Unknown Speaker 15:06 Interesting Unknown Speaker 15:07 is actually now in New Jersey, everybody that's on the registry, that committed a crime after a certain date is going to be lifetime parole. So that's, that's going to be a very, Unknown Speaker 15:22 a very hard thing to deal with. How much time does it take to get your studio? Unknown Speaker 15:30 I got mine. With my studies on my own. It took me about probably about about a month. And which if you go to the school, you could probably do it in about six weeks. Okay. You can probably get a government assistance with it, if you go to the class and do all the stuff you're supposed to do. Unfortunately, I didn't qualify for that I had to pay it out of pocket. It cost me about 30 $500. But Andy 16:00 I mean, it sounds like forget the part that you don't have 35,030 500 bucks, but it's a really strong return on investment. I'm not trying to like I said, I mean, is it a $10? An hour job is a $20 an hour job? Unknown Speaker 16:11 No. Okay. We can get, we can get kind of specific, my first job was driving a bus, I would make $14 an hour. Then, when I started to drive a truck, I would I made 40 cents a mile and I could drive about 600 miles a day. So figure it out, that's a little less than $300 a day closer to 50. Which isn't that bad. Then we came to dry when I started driving solo, I made a flat rate per day of $275 a day, whether I drove 400 miles or 25 miles. Now the the job that I'm going to get during training, they pay $20 an hour. When you become a regular driver, they pay 2460 an hour and then you can legally work 70 hours a week, overtime starts at 50 hours with time and a half. Okay? So if you really want it, if you really want to work and maximize your hours, you can make six figures easy. Andy 17:18 And that only that gets even better if you have like a partner driver, right? Unknown Speaker 17:24 Well, for what I'm doing, you wouldn't have a partner driver and no, not necessarily because if the truck keeps moving the truck, the companies usually figure out what the truck makes and then you split it up between the drivers. Okay. Okay, so you're not going to really get any any better. with with with the call team driving. Gotcha. Andy 17:47 Larry, do you have anything else? Larry 17:49 Well, I think I think that that's good information in particular, when you when you get into that 20 $24 and 50 cents an hour range that you know, that's that's some impressive money. Unknown Speaker 17:58 Yep, that's like 50 grand. Unknown Speaker 18:01 Right, right. No, that's a year. No, that's more than 9024 Andy 18:06 hours about 50 grand a year when you count like a 40 Hour Workweek. Unknown Speaker 18:10 Oh, yeah, we don't do 40 hour work weeks. That's for regular people. Oh, wait, you're in a regular person. No, truck drivers work. Seven truck drivers work 70 hours a week. Oh, Andy 18:22 okay. Because you're paid being on the road, not moving the truck? Yes, right. Unknown Speaker 18:31 Yes, when you get paid by the mile, then that's when you get, that's the most dangerous way to pay a driver because then they're going to start speeding instruction zones are going to do everything they can do to gain the system to make that money. Know. If I'm stuck in traffic, I don't care anymore. Because I'm making I'm making a flat rate. Andy 18:55 What do you think? Okay, so in chat, someone just said that. Somebody one says that the classes available around that area, this is in the Maryland area, turned him down. He couldn't even get into see the glasses. Unknown Speaker 19:08 I can't I find it hard to believe that a class that you would pay for would turn you down because that's like a store saying that they're not going to sell you groceries. Now I can see a company not not training, you are not paying you because they don't want to hire you. That's the one other thing I'm sorry, this is going to take a little bit longer than I wanted to get into. It is harder to get a job when you have when you're under registry or a felon in general, because it's the insurance from the company that basically limits what jobs you have any of the big companies like swift us express any of those, you're not going to get a job there Walmart, Andy 19:49 you're not getting a mom and pop group. Right? Unknown Speaker 19:53 Right. Or if you're lucky enough to be able to get your own truck and do what you gotta do. But that is going to probably be out of everybody that's registered, I would say maybe one or two people. Right? Right, right. But yes, you would look for or for a smaller company. What I told people that have felony convictions, I say, when you drive down the road, look for the trailers that had density. And those are two companies that you probably want to try to work for because they might hire you. Gotcha. Andy 20:24 Gotcha. And, and just just to complete that whole thought a friend of mine here in Georgia, he is a you know, he's a day driver. But he he hits the immediately surrounding states and he's still on supervision. And he gets like a monthly travel permit. So he is he hits North Carolina, I think he hits the top of Florida. I don't know if he hits Alabama or not. But he just knows that with the way he has to time it. I don't think he spends the night but you know, he has to then take into account the being you know, you can't try for more than eight or 10 hours, whatever it is, he has a time that right for where his load gets dropped out. 11 whatever. Yeah. So but and he he makes decent money. I mean, he it's not you know, you're not you're not gonna make a fortune, you're not gonna be Jeffrey Epstein. But you're gonna you're gonna live pretty comfortably, decently comfortable. certainly better than like, you know, working at a loading dock, making 750 an hour or whatever. Unknown Speaker 21:13 or working someplace where you got to say you want fries. What exactly, Andy 21:15 do you want to supersize that right on? You ready to dive into these articles? Larry 21:24 I reckon so. Andy 21:26 And you have thoroughly read and vetted in them all? Larry 21:29 I have not. It has been It has been a horrendous week for me here because our staff attorney is having to defend her own husband. And yes, it's a system that is disregarding everything that that that this country stands for in the way of due process. So we have been working on that case. as horrible as I haven't said emotional support person, I have been trying to do my best to provide that. And it would be very, very, very stressful to go through what she's been going through her her husband was yanked out of here last Friday with no notice because he was going to be transported to Georgia. Right. Right. But well, it's not really extradition, it was a transport, or retaking, but he got transported Georgia. So for eight days until this morning, we didn't know where he was, Unknown Speaker 22:23 oh my god, it took eight days. Larry 22:25 Well, that's the way the private companies work. They do efficiency, not direct route. So the they meander around, whatever, wherever they have prisoners to pick up. Andy 22:35 Do you remember way back in our history, I don't know Episode 10 or 15, or something that we covered something about a prison transport van that they were like locked in this sweltering van for like 20 or 30 days just to go from West Virginia to Texas. Larry 22:50 vaguely remember that there's been some good jury verdict on these. What happens on these vans and the prisoner transport companies are starting them prove their processes. And we're going to hope to improve their processes even further when this is done, because already we know enough about what ensued. But that's really been distracting for me, in addition to my regular work in addition to so it's like we've we've got an ambitious litigation agenda in our state and we just can't can't get started until we get till we get this matter resolved in Georgia. Andy 23:25 Well, alright, so I guess I'll have to cut you some slack since you were doing something. Not emotional, but sort of on the personal side, but not really Larry 23:34 doing a lot of legal writing. I have to I have to have to take the emotion out of she's she's crafting up stuff. And I said, Nope, can't say that. Nope, can't say that either. Nope. You have to actually say this. Nope, you can't do that. And it's difficult when you're when you're trying to represent someone you have to have a deep emotional connection with them. Yep. So so so. So I'm on her team of lawyers for her her her case. Andy 24:01 Gotcha. Well, the first article that we have is coming from the New York Times. And the title is a relentless jailhouse lawyer propels a case to the Supreme Court. So here's a cat that had been in prison for 23 years. And he spends all of his time Law Library helping folks out and eventually gets hooked up with like, you know, a street lawyer, belt and suspenders lawyer, I hear this expression. I don't know, a belt and suspenders lawyer means do you, Larry, does that mean any have no, I have Larry 24:30 no idea what that means. Andy 24:31 Okay. And but the the point, the main point that I want at this article is there's a quote in there that says, from Well, before I was involved, the attorney says Calvin, the person that we're speaking about his name is Calvin Duncan. Calvin understood that this was a winning legal issue, speaking to the article, how to frame it, raise it and challenge it, and challenge the non unanimous law. And I wanted to like key in on this how to frame thing as far as you have to, you can't just say, hey, this sucks. I don't like it. it's unconstitutional. But you have to figure out how to put the points in the right place in the right order to almost like, you know, a debate team, you have to know how to argue your things. Larry 25:17 That is correct. The the best, the best legal minds often oftentimes get that out of kilter, they don't understand that, that you have to, I mean, Paul duping who many of our supporters and listeners are familiar with out of Chapel Hill, North Carolina, he says you have to argue to your audience and the Supreme Court of the United States currently tends to be on the more conservative side, and you have to figure out what is going to appeal to them. It but it also has to have some legal basis to you and figure figuring out how to cast a constitutional argument. Hopefully those that listen last week, realize that just because you don't like something doesn't make it unconstitutional. So you have to be started. But constitution, plenty of things were stupid, but constitutional. So when you when you manage to get to the High Court, which is exceedingly rare, how many people have a case together at 80 to 90 per year? When you get to the High Court, you better have your arguments succinct, and you better have arguments that appeal to this type of justice, you got to get at least five of them. Yeah, and most insurance, you gotta have at least five. And he do we had a winning issue. But he he knew how to phrase or at least assistant and framing the issue. I think I think that we could, we could talk about that. In the case of the Maryland versus department, Public Safety and Correctional Services, we had a winning issue. And that case, and the state started trying to invent issues to argue emotion, and argue bullshit. And although if I can say though, the podcast, but but we stuck to the issues, that there's no federal registry, and we stopped, we stopped to the process full of state control, federalism. And we argued that and we prevailed in that case, because we stuck to the actual facts and not the emotion. And and you need, you need to learn that the US Supreme Court you're not emotion is not going to carry you through through to the to the victory line in most instances. Andy 27:22 It seemed to work pretty well for Kevin, I'll turn is that the Senate confirm that it wasn't confirmation hearing. It was just a it was a it was a hearing just a sense, actually, like that was a confirmation hearing. Was it? Unknown Speaker 27:33 That was the government part of the car. Okay, what was the public? Yes. Go ahead, Mike. Unknown Speaker 27:38 I thought that was a committee hearing. Larry 27:41 Well, that's the confirmation when you go through the Judiciary Committee of the Senate. And then you the committee takes its vote to either to refer the comp of the with the nomination forward with a recommendation to confirm or without recommendation that it goes to the full Senate. But what what we were watching on TV was the was the the committee hearing, and then the vote was susan collins gave her long, laborious speech about why she was going to support the nomination, that that was actually on the Senate floor. Gotcha. Andy 28:13 Um, anyway, that was the the point that I wanted to get out of that article was that he knew how to frame things. And I just wanted to drive home the point that about when you're speaking to, even if it's the family next door, depending on their, their background, their children's situation, etc, you may have to deliver your message to them in a different fashion, whatever you're trying to peddle, if it's, hey, I'm your neighbor, I'm on the registry or you know, whatever else it is. Larry 28:40 I agree. And this this, this article on the Times New York Times, it's a good one. Yeah. Andy 28:46 Then moving over to I've never heard of this publication, but inverse calm, and honestly, we don't even have to make it past the title of it. And it could be hyperbole, it could be clickbait, whatever. But the title is, police are one of the leading causes of death for young men in the United States. Just that they list some statistics in there, you can go verify them if you want to. But if you are a young adult, young man in this country, you and you have interactions with the police, there is a much higher than average chance that you're going to end up not living much longer. And I that just bothers me that it's it shouldn't be that way. But somehow we've gotten to this stage Larry 29:27 where the statistics are, are bad for, for what happens, where no one likes to see a falling office. Right. But but they're the the officers have, if you look at the statistics, there's a website that talks about fallen officers. And if you look at this statistically, and I know that some will criticize me and say that, that these are bogus, false, but this is the organization that advocates for helping fallen officers, the number of officers who have fallen in the line of duty has dropped precipitously since the 1970s. It is safer now to be a police officer than any time in recorded history. We don't like to see a single police officer die. But on the other hand, other side of that it is not safe. The statistics of what happens to you was it with a police encounter. Now they're still exceedingly small balls, hundreds of thousands and millions of place encounters do not result in death. But statistically, on the other side of the ledger, the number of people dying at the hands of the police have gone up in the same time the number of officers has gone down. So you tell me what's going on. Andy 30:39 Right? Mike? What do you have to say about all that? Unknown Speaker 30:43 Well, the way it's being framed, it makes it sound like all these people that have interactions with the police don't don't are just walking down the street minding their own business, and all of a sudden, the cop decides to shoot him or attack him or something. Lot of times that there are a lot of times people are breaking the law and try to look at it from the cops point of view, sometimes I understand that it is a problem. But is this really being blown out of proportion for political gain for some people? Larry 31:19 Well, I don't think so. And we enjoy having people with different opinion here. But I don't think so I think that when you're walking down the street, and your profile, and you're you're asked as a as a middle aged white guy, you're never going to be asked, Why are you in a particular neighborhood, they're not going to pull you over, and your protection will stop. And they're not going to pull you over? What when you when you have your windows attended, and you got a little bit of thumping music. And we just don't encounter that. So we can't relate to it. And at some point, you get tired of the place asking you why are you here? What are you doing here? What's your business here, let me run your ID, okay, you're you get held up for 30 minutes while they do that, and then they'll let you on your way. And then the next day, the same thing happens to you again, at some point, at some point, you find it a little irritated. Unknown Speaker 32:11 And it does happen to me as a middle aged white guy. I go down to New York sometimes, which is a really bad area in some places. And the police stopped me all the time saying Why are you here? Because I'm a white guy in an area. That's a major minority population, you're only going to buy drugs. Exactly. And it just happens at one of my friends from prison, lives in that area. And if I go to see him, you know that this happens to me also, I understand. But now I don't. I don't get pulled out of the car. I don't get all of this. You know, they don't do this to me. But then again, when they ask for my license, yes, Officer, why are you here visiting my friend, I don't get belligerent with him. I don't start saying stuff like, I'm not going to give you my license, I don't have to give you my license. At a roadside stop or anytime with a police officer is not a time to start an argument with that. They have so much power and so much control over you they can escalate a situation really bad. The best thing to do is be polite and courteous. And a lot of times that will get you out of a lot of stuff. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that part of what you said that that is not the time to have a confrontation. But do you like living in a country where they simply pull you over? Because you're in a place with there's no probable cause? Does being in a poor neighborhood Unknown Speaker 33:38 driving through? Is that enough for the police to detain you? Unknown Speaker 33:44 Well, do you call being pulled over for a stop being detained? What Larry 33:48 does absolutely that's that's the detention for repair time. Absolutely big. Okay, they did take? Sorry, are you happy with your country? Where you believe that there should be some that are should be at least some reasonably articulable suspicion or probable cause for person have to undergo a detention and an interrogation? Are you? Are you fine with that? If you are, that's fine with me, but I'm not? Unknown Speaker 34:12 Well, at all, I would imagine that it would also depend on the area if they find that a lot of white people are going to this black neighborhood to buy drugs. That is a valid profile. And maybe that is why they stop it to try to stop people before a crime is committed. Does it get taken out of hand? Does it get taken to extremes? Yes. But I believe that some form of profiling is actually human nature. It is. But Andy 34:41 I would argue that you have the presumption of innocence before anything. So they should there shouldn't be any sort of acceptable profile to just pull you over and go. Why are you here? You have the First Amendment freedom of expression, you get to go hang out with whatever friend you want to go hang out with. Unknown Speaker 34:59 And I I agree with you. But now would you rather them pull random people over like they do at airports for random screening? Or would you rather have them focus on people that they think are more likely to be people that fit a certain criteria? What Larry 35:17 is that criteria? So that it all depends, I guess it all it actually I can easily answer that I would rather than abide by our constitution Bill of Rights, and that that, that you don't hassle people until you have when you have the requisite legal standards. That's what I would like the country I'd live in. So it's easy for me to answer. Unknown Speaker 35:36 Okay, so there's no, there's no legal standard for a police officer to pull somebody over. Larry 35:43 Or if they're, if they have a taillight out, they can pull them over since operating a car, if they swarm swarm over the center line. If they speed, there's a whole number of things pulling over, but if they're completely abiding by the law, and you don't have to manufacture something, pull them over before protection will stop just because you have an intuition. That's not the nation I want to live in. I don't want to live in a nation for you operate an intuition, I want you to have probable cause or at least reasonable suspicion. And the fact that that that you're a white guy driving through a black neighborhood, that doesn't make you there for to be there for drugs, that is not enough standing alone. Unknown Speaker 36:21 Okay, well, we just disagree on that. I mean, it does get taken out of hand, it could be the amount of interaction could be lessened. But I think that profiling in general, might be a good thing. People do it all the time. If you're walking down the street, and you see somebody that just you get a bad feeling about it. Are you going to say, well, that person might be good, he's given me no probable cause to think that he might be a danger to me, I'm just going to keep walking straight by him. Or my might you just say, I'm going across the street just in case and walk on the other side of the street? Andy 36:58 Let me let me play devil's out make it with you for a moment, you often talk about people wearing bolts in their faces and tattoos and crazy hair and the way you dress. Isn't that profiling? Larry 37:08 It absolutely is. And when I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't suppress it of their rights. I just choose not to deal with some of them. But I'm not interfere with their writer mobility, they can be anywhere they want to be, they can be in the theater, they can do anything they want to do. I'm surprised from a person who comes from a libertarian perspective, I'm told, would be so forgiving of, of the police state being able to intrude in people's lives and ask for an accounting of where they are. It that just doesn't seem to be a consistency with the libertarian view, which is let people live and let live and keep government out of their life. Can you square that one up for me? Unknown Speaker 37:47 Sure. It's not that I'm saying that they have the right to ask you all these personal questions. Take if a police officer comes to me. And he is he says, we think you're here for drugs. And I tell him No. And he gets the look in my car or not actually search it. But I mean, you know, with the little flashlight, look around, he doesn't see any anything that that grabs his attention or whatever. Okay, you're free to go. It shouldn't be a lengthy stop. It should be, you know, a quick thing. You see somebody walking down the street with their pants hanging down all the time. Is that a fashion statement? Or do they have something in their pockets? It's really weighing them down like a gun. Andy 38:33 That I mean, that's a fashion trend, as far as I know. And it also makes it significantly harder for them to run away. Unknown Speaker 38:40 Yes, it does so Andy 38:42 quick. But again, even even if they have a gun weighing them down, that is the presumption that they are doing something illegal. And you don't have the power to detain them until you have evidence that they are doing something that you would detain them for. Right. Unknown Speaker 38:55 That's that's that's where that's where we just agree, I don't consider just being stopped on the street. And as to as a detainment. I don't know if they put you in cuffs and put you in the back of the car. And then they started searching your car without your consent. I'm fully against that. Andy 39:17 I'm intrigued by this. So So Larry, this is fourth amendment stuff. So this is search and seizure. Right? I mean, even them, talking to you even having like the conversation. Hey, I'm officer so and so. Can you show me your driver's license? This happened to me once I was walking back from lunch, they were looking for somebody, I think they were looking for a tall white dude. And I fit that. So the cop just said, Hey, can I see your driver's license? I handed it to me and off I went. Doesn't does that cross the line of being detained? Unknown Speaker 39:45 Well, it was I wouldn't consider that being Larry 39:47 detained. Was there a detention it was brief detention, yet it was also based on something other than just a hot you, unless it was a protection, stop it where he wanted to run you through and see if he he actually has something in the way of criminality is someone that we're looking for. But But I mean, you cannot view it as attention. That's fine. But the courts of all rule that when you're when you're stopped at roadside, and you're not allowed to proceed on your way, that is a detention for however brief of time. They're more lenient on the brief for the attention is like a roadblock or they're waving cars through and they look in briefly and they see if I can smell alcohol they wave you on through, those have been constantly uphill, just being so brief, that they're not very disruptive. But when you have to pull over stop, show your license, wait for the officer run your NCIC, then they bring the dogs car, then then to ask you to open the truck so that they can go through all your stuff. And they do that repeatedly. That is a very much of an intrusion in your life. And that happens in the minority community all the time. Unknown Speaker 40:48 And like, well, what you add all that on there, when you add the bringing the dog around, open in the trunk, the search, yes, then the libertarian view that I have says that's way too much. It shouldn't have gotten that far. I'm talking about a simple stop, they ask you a question or two, and you're on your way within minutes, like less than two or three minutes. Well, Andy 41:10 it's a First Amendment challenge to freedom of expression, Larry 41:13 I would invite you to ride in a minority neighborhood and see the difference of into detention that goes on and how extensive it becomes. And in terms of the searching and the getting out of your car. And for the officer safety held that they often put the person in handcuffs as they're standing by the by the car while they're searching the car. And while they're breaking into canine unit to see if they can smell drugs. It is a lot more. That type of stuff happens a lot more in the minority community. And and that's what that's what brings the frustration level. Unknown Speaker 41:47 Well, when you bring all those facts into account, then yes, I agree with you. Andy 41:52 All right, we should probably move on before we beat this dead horse to death. Alright, sounds good. All right. And this is from the post star and took me a minute to figure out who it was I had to look up who this legislator was and state Assemblyman. That's the same thing where they just call them different in New York. Yes, yes. Okay. So this guy says that the the, the low level offenders are exploiting a loophole and not registering their internet identifiers. I think this guy is our like our jackass of the week, so to speak. And he says it is a public safety issue that puts our community members at risk. We cannot have registered sex offenders on social media sites without them reporting. This is not a partisan Unknown Speaker 42:35 issue, something that both sides of the oil can get behind. Unknown Speaker 42:40 I think he's a journalist. Larry 42:41 You're pretty good at that. Unknown Speaker 42:43 You're like that? Yeah, kind of passionate. But this is stupid. This is stupid. asinine. I hate this. I hate this. I hate this. Larry 42:53 Oh, well. Now what exactly is he proposing just to take disclose that their own social media that they'd be banned? Andy 43:00 Um, no, he says that they need to they need to reveal their social media accounts, because they are not internet identifiers, such as an email address or direct messaging account. So it's, I don't know, man, I just I don't like any of these things. I don't think that they I'm you're going to have people that target people that they shouldn't be targeting. And but I just I just don't think it's as rampant to shut down. However many there are in New York. I don't I don't think that this is at all going to be effective. Yes, it would save one, I'm sure. But as we see in the statistics over and over again, it's most often someone that is close to the family. It's not just some random that you encounter on the internet. Unknown Speaker 43:50 So well, misguided public policy, Larry 43:55 giving people against the false sense of security of being what I would say when you've been if they're not banning social media, disclosing them. I mean, I'd rather I'd rather there be no intrusion at all. But But this this is certainly below the level of just an outright ban, which has been tried and struck down by the courts. As far as I know, everywhere. It's been tried. There's been different successful and actually haven't just provide the internet identifiers. Some cases, the challenges been successful. In some cases, they have not been. Andy 44:31 Do you happen to know any of the details, differences of the way they cut argued to be good versus bad, or successful versus not Larry 44:38 as it were? Well, I think it's more to do with the philosophy of the courts where they say that the arguments have been admitted that it suppresses you have right then and liberty and speech and it suppresses people's willingness to speak if they have to reveal how they would speak anonymously. And some courts have been more sympathetic to that arguments and others help. Unknown Speaker 45:00 Yeah. Just said, What about chilling anonymous political speech? That's what someone's Larry 45:05 you know that that's, that's that that's what I would continue to argue Unknown Speaker 45:10 with you. Andy 45:11 Okay. So then let me put on the partisan hat. So New York being typically touted as being a super duper left leaning state, does that hold one more water on the left side? Or does it hold more water on the right side? Larry 45:24 And in the political environment at the legislature doesn't it doesn't really hold it this, this could easily go through unanimously, what works, what would have the best chance of stopping us from going through would be a good strong advocate organization there. That would that would be respected enough to take to have conversations with both sides of the aisle. But if there's if the law enforcement apparatus was telling them, they need this, and the victim advocates are saying they need this, and there's a shrill, fevered pitch, political environment developed, and there's no one saying there's any problem with this, it's not likely. So I don't want to I don't want to politicize this, because it's going to come through unanimous there's if there's some opposition, or almost you know, Andy 46:02 right. Now, as we keep saying, if it makes it through the committee's, and all that stuff and gets to a vote, it will go through it has to be stopped before we get there. Larry 46:09 Or if you know, I don't know anything about your legislative process. But sometimes you have a committee chair that gets it, or a powerful committee chair or powerful committee, vice chair that gets it and they will bottle something up, and never let it see the light of day. They know that that could that could happen. But those people are not going to magically get it. If not one's helping them to get the they need help. And I don't think that we have much in the way of advocacy in New York. One of those states where there's not a whole lot of LA, it's unfortunate Marvel large state says has there's very little way of advocacy. Andy 46:47 Right, Mike? I actually do not understand. Can you clarify the way that you worded that question? Unknown Speaker 46:53 Yeah, and read the question that you you typed in there, too. Unknown Speaker 46:57 I did that kind of quick. My question, basically, is how, when you're on a registry, if you don't provide the correct information and everything people get prosecuted, left and right. But yet, has anybody ever been prosecuted for using the information that's on the registry to hassle one of us? That's my challenge to find somebody that's actually been prosecuted for it. I know Unknown Speaker 47:20 the answer. Larry, go ahead. I know what your answer is going to be. Larry 47:24 I certainly not with any regularity, that people get prosecuted. I can't say no one ever has, but it's not a high. It's not a high priority of most prosecution operations as to they're not spending their time. Andy 47:37 Gregor call you saying something like actually proving that, hey, I found this jackass on the registry. So I went in modem down. That's what, uh, that you've made some sort of statement along those lines before? Unknown Speaker 47:49 Well, Larry, Larry can appreciate this, because in New Jersey law, everything that has to do with registration on our part says, You shall do this or you shall do that. Shall is a very important legal term. Yep. But when it comes to people using the information against us, they may be prosecuted. Unknown Speaker 48:12 Funny, I've never heard of that point. That's Larry 48:16 okay. That's good. That's pretty pretty good. I can, I can assure you that it's like vigilante justice when when when someone does an act of vigilantism. If it's one of those acts of vigilantism that resonates with the public, thinking that prosecutors are largely elected in this country. It's very rare that they'll go after the vigilante, if I do is I go after the person was with kid gloves, because we're running against them. Unknown Speaker 48:44 I see people putting stuff up about that on the discord site. Now I'm not really talking about the majors, things like this. I'm talking about like your neighbor that comes in puts a bag of crap in front of your door and lights it on fire, because you're under registry or spray paint something on your car, some something like that. I'm not talking about something that makes headline news. Andy 49:06 And I'm pretty sure we could go back to like, how would you actually I mean, as a person going to cop to saying that they found this information on the internet. So that's why they targeted the person, that person would be like, Oh, I just don't like this person, because they leave their trash out the wrong way. Unknown Speaker 49:23 Right, I can understand what is Larry 49:25 an interesting thing to minute, this thoughts just now occurred to me because I've talked about how I evolved on the the hate crimes. Big, big elevated in terms of the importance, but it is interesting here because this when you commit a crime against the person on the registry, build it because you hate them because they're on the registry. I bet magical a lot of our people, but let's see that that should be an elevated crime of importance, because they're, they're there. They're not just setting the house on fire because they want to watch a house burned down. They're setting the house on fire because I hate them because they're a sex offender. And they're doing a willful disregard for human life. And magical happen. people that say that hate crimes are not needed, because it's already against the crime against the law to burn the house down or to beat someone up because they're registered. I bet magical a lot of people would be in favor of escalating that level of importance. I'd be curious to hear feedback on that. Because that would be that would that would that would that would be a very good analogy to why we have hate crimes laws. Unknown Speaker 50:24 Are you looking for me? No. Larry 50:27 But we've got we've got we've got a lot of people out there who say Well, what I don't need to start against a lot of bus somebody over the head. Well, yes, it is. Right. Right. Right. Right. But But if you go out look for people bust over the head because you don't like gay people. And you're not really busting overhead to take their money away from them because you want to get a drug fix that you're just simply hate gay people so bad. You're busting heads. That is a different level of offense, in my view, that well, I'm just wondering if if you go out and bustle one over the head because we're on the registry. FF the people who say that hate crimes are not needed. I'm wondering if magically they bit about place inside? Well, yes, that should be a more serious fancy bus up on the head. Stop it because you found them on the rich wonder if they would be consistent. Andy 51:08 Ready to be a part of registry matters. Get links at registry matters dot CEO. If you need to be all discreet about it, contact them by email registry matters cast at gmail. com. You can call or text or ransom message to 747 to 274477. Want to support registry matters on a monthly basis, head to patreon.com slash registry matters. Not ready to become a patron, give a five star review at Apple podcasts for Stitcher, or tell your buddies that your treatment class about the podcast. We want to send out a big heartfelt support for those on the registry. Keep fighting. Without you, we can't succeed. You make it possible. All right, well, then let's move on to one of my favorite podcasts incredibly well done is on the media from WM yc. And they have something called a podcast extra. And so it's not like what you would normally hear on their Saturday or you know, Friday shows whatever. And but they've been doing a three part segment on repairing justice. And I totally just wanted to like lay it out there, go find it. It's fairly recent, in the last 234 weeks that these things have been out. They are amazing talking about how ineffective prison is and how violent it is and how people are basically screwed on the other side when they get out. It is a non efficient way to try and get some level of rehabilitation into the system. And like I said, I just wanted to point it out to people because a I love the show. But the these are really specific segments that are related to us. Larry 52:47 I didn't listen to it. But uh, but I plan to Andy 52:49 Oh, sweet, man, I totally want to hear your take on it. If you do, Unknown Speaker 52:53 I do plan to Andy 52:55 excellent. Um, and then of course, we have a war and peace signed on article from the appeal. And this is Alabama life without parole denied denied freedom at the age of 52. And this is as you like to call them Junior vials. This kid was sentenced at 17 for a mountain of time. And the supreme court as as I understand it, please help me get through this. But as I understand that the Supreme Court said you cannot sentence kids to these kind of super duper long life without parole kind of sentences. And even after that Alabama is still saying, Man, we don't want to give it to you. And this is over like a $40 robbery and some people ended up dying. But supposedly this kid didn't actually pull the trigger. But then he's an accomplished so Alabama says negative not happening Well, Larry 53:42 at 17 years old, he was plenty old enough to know that he or not have been hanging out with those kind of people. And he helped have been able to figure out that something bad could have happened. And that something bad happened. He's just as responsible because he was there and I don't know why you bleeding heart. Liberals always want to come in and make excuses for people and justify them. Hate. He was old enough that he did the crime and he able to do the time and Quit complaining. Unknown Speaker 54:10 Oh shit my bed. Alright. Alright, so we're gonna move on, Mike feel free. Anything you gotta take how to go in there with? Unknown Speaker 54:18 No, I'm saying. Larry 54:19 So Well, actually, the Supreme Court ruled that not in his particular case, but they ruled that I think it was in a different case, that life without parole with no possibility of parole for juvenile was unconstitutional. So, but they didn't agree with I didn't say that you have to release every juvenile who's received that sentence. They what they said was that they had to be given the possibility of parole. So Alabama said, All righty, we've given him the possibility he can apply for parole, and the board will consider him. So they considered him I said dope. He's not ready for it yet. So he gets to be considered again in five years, I think the articles Right. Yeah. So So there has not been a massive release of people because of this ruling. It's kind of like the California where the Federal Court said you, you can have to get your reduce your prison population. They didn't say you have to release a single offender. They said, you you have within the facilities you have you can only have this number of people. And you can build more you can do whatever you want to do. But you can't continue to overcrowd these at this level. Well, the Supreme Court didn't say you have to release anybody it's been sent send it to life without parole is juvenile. They just said you have to give them the possibility of parole. So they've done that. I've created a process that says you can apply for parole. And lo and behold, he doesn't qualify. Andy 55:45 Because somebody has a wild hair one day and really the inverse, someone has a wild hair to let them go. But they're just saying no, not doing it. And probably never going to do it put this guy in the bottom of the pile for the next the next round. And it's still Unknown Speaker 55:58 here yet it probably so Larry 56:00 he'll be he'll be 57 he'll be eligible to ask again. Andy 56:06 And this is a awesome state of Alabama. Awesome state. Larry 56:10 It says while the parole board will occasionally consider prisoners case. Earlier recent actions by the Obama governor and the legislature have made Candace a chance of here earlier hearing unlikely and October 2018. Governor KIV issued a moratorium on early parole after the parole board released a man who then boarded three people and see how one person can cause the entire system to stop because of the actions of one. That's now the police always tell you just opposite. They save now we might have a bad officer now then. But no, you should not judge the whole force because of one that officer we're fine people. And I agree with that. But I wish they would do the same thing. I wish law enforcement would say well wait a minute, now we release hundreds of people on parole every year hundred if not thousands, and they don't go out and kill people. So we shouldn't throw the entire system away because of the actions of one. Let's try to figure out what we missed in that one. I wish they would have the same attitude when it's looking back towards them. But I know that's wishing for something I'll probably never see. Andy 57:22 Christian chat says Damn it. Larry, you're so right. You have you have a fan and chat. Unknown Speaker 57:30 Well, Larry, there are there are some police that are actually showing very good restraint. I mean, in New York City, a lot of them are getting water thrown on him and they're not even responded. And I think that's an outrage. Larry 57:41 Well, I would I would tend to agree that that should not be assaulting the police. And I think that that an appropriate level. The problem is there's been to enough to de escalation by police of the heavy handed response. Throwing anything at a police officer is on call for their line of duty. You don't have the right to do that. I think that that that's over the top. But but there are advanced political pressure there in New York under de Blasio because they're trying to correct the excesses of the police of this. This is probably an overreaction, if that's if the police are not responding to that. But you also don't need to respond by turning the dogs loose and beating them down and pushing their head into the concrete and knocking their teeth out. And you don't have to go that extreme of putting them in a van and riding them around town and causing them to fall because you're doing hard turns and all that kind of stuff. That's an overreaction. Unknown Speaker 58:35 And those are the police that should be fired. Andy 58:38 Right? And we can't get that at all. I mean, time and time again, maybe you know, on the outside of that one or two of them have been prosecuted. But the dude in New York City Larry 58:46 never ever get convicted. Hardly ever that jury, right? Guilty. Andy 58:51 But just that cat that was selling cigarettes on the street, yes. He may have been belligerent, he may have been resisting, he may have been doing something illegal, but for Pete's sakes, man, it's not death sentence. And that is ridiculous to have. Like, I don't it was like six officers corralling around the guy kind of like pushing on him and all this stuff. And he's like, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. Dude dies. That's insane to me that this should happen. Unknown Speaker 59:12 So Unknown Speaker 59:13 Alright, great. So uh, Larry 59:15 but yes, this was an unfortunate thing was this young man in Alabama, but just because they kill somebody another this sounds silly. But the recidivism rate on murders very, very low, very low. And since he didn't actually do the murder, and everybody concedes that point, to lock him up for sunlight. He was a part of this many years ago. And just simply just continue to deny him any chance at life is disgusting. And you folks in Alabama, there listening ought to be ashamed of yourself. Andy 59:49 All right. And then you know, actually, and you know, I call things my quote, unquote, favorite Article of the week or my favorite person. And it's usually me being like, this is so asinine, and ridiculous or abhorrent, and I just don't have like a better way to phrase it. And here we go. A man helped a lost toddler, find her parents, police say he was smeared online as a predator and fled town. My understanding of the story is there's like a, like a little league baseball game or something like that they're in town. And a kid is this guy notices that there's a kid, he's not even one of our people, man. He's just like a normal Joe. And he sees this kid like wandering off. So he tries to figure out who the kid belongs to. And obviously got the kid returned. But then everyone's like, Oh, this is a pedophile. He's trying to abduct our kid. And they start posting up on Facebook, like, Hey, watch out for this dude. And all this. And like the kids, the guys getting death threats. And all this, and this is just we have turned our society into, like, are you just supposed to let the kid run away and get hit by a car? Would that be the acceptable response? Now, I'm not going anywhere near a kid if I see them out. This actually happened to me. Couple years ago, like a kid from down the street, was walking around just in his diaper. someone knocks on my door is like, hey, do you know this kid This is I'm like, I'm not going anywhere near that kid. That's like frickin kryptonite to me. Unknown Speaker 1:01:10 And I just closed the door. That's Andy 1:01:12 that's like, that's not how society is supposed to work. Larry 1:01:16 Well, this was an older article from 70 to 3 billion in development. So you know what nature Andy 1:01:22 that is totally my fault. I didn't even notice that. Someone just posted it and I grabbed it. So I don't have a development on it. Oh, Larry 1:01:30 well, I made it the point you're making is still valid. What? sure that it I remember something in school and I can't somebody chattel help me with it. But there was a royal person who was dying and that you're the peasants, the common people weren't allowed to touch the royalty and the so they let let the let the king or the queen or whatever, whoever was drown. And this is so many years ago, but I remember something in school where it was a word that was well, this is example that so I guess you're supposed to let a kid be in harm's way. Because if you do anything, otherwise they're going to crucify is being big being as big as what they call a pedophile or predator. Andy 1:02:10 Yeah, they called him a predator and, like, made the news and all this crap. And so the dude had to like, skip down, which is crazy. Unknown Speaker 1:02:18 So, Unknown Speaker 1:02:19 go ahead, tell me tell me why we're wrong. Just saying. Unknown Speaker 1:02:23 Actually, I agree with Unknown Speaker 1:02:26 if I'm in a Walmart and I see a kid by themselves, I'll look to the nearest adult woman and I'll say is that your kid? If not, maybe you should keep an eye on Yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not going to actually I'm going to go to the next aisle over. Andy 1:02:42 As far as all of that goes, at least they're 18 bajillion cameras in a Walmart that you could always have. You should be able to get the evidence to be supportive of your actions or hopefully not the other side of that where you don't have that support your actions Unknown Speaker 1:02:58 know any evidence in my favors either going to be lost or damaged Andy 1:03:04 will in chat says that the Father beat the crap out of the student and he gave me the article link but he deleted it. He says he did and that would make this even more important or Larry 1:03:16 what Well yeah, that's an article back I can just about getting back to the father didn't get prosecuted. What do you bet? Andy 1:03:22 I'm searching for the word beat and I didn't find it in the article. So yeah, I mean, he probably didn't because of the the the the rage and all that from you know, like almost pleading insanity from from killing your, your your wife when you walk in on her cheating on you something like that. So yeah, does he get some some sort of temporary insanity? Larry 1:03:42 Well, but they're never gonna prosecute me It says the man who also well, just now I have shoe ads popping up, because I bought Unknown Speaker 1:03:51 my screen. Larry 1:03:53 There you go. Thank you. Internet avail was also punched by the child's father who told local media that he thought he was trying to take that my daughter and he wanted to kill him quote, I did. I did see the punch part. Okay, I was looking at the downward. Yeah. So but but what do you bet he wasn't prosecuted? Andy 1:04:09 That's a good question. Larry 1:04:11 I bet it wasn't. I agree with you. Unknown Speaker 1:04:14 So there we are. If I was in that, if I was in that position, and he punched me, I would have fell over. So I would have been rolling over screaming in pain. I would have I would have got an Academy Award for that and civil court. Andy 1:04:29 line into criminal, right. Larry 1:04:30 I want to be a criminal. But he's his point is he wants to try to bleed the band. Right? He may not have a pot to piss A Andy 1:04:36 true, true, true, true. And my apologies for pulling something out. I didn't I didn't fit the date. I just came up on the radar. And I was like, Unknown Speaker 1:04:42 What? Andy 1:04:44 Larry, do you want to read your your statement before the El Chapo thing or after? Larry 1:04:50 Well, we do have an article here about the Metropolitan Correctional Center, and it'll be in the show so old. It goes back to her this year. I think 2017 Andy 1:05:02 though. That's the one I have for the Manhattan jail. Holding El Chapo. Okay. Well, then, Larry 1:05:07 then the I think I'd found a more recent one. But I was finding some time to try to, to convey what that facilities like. Yeah, this is someone who said they'd been on this and Guantanamo. This is worse than Guantanamo. According to that person. Now, I haven't been in Guantanamo, nor have I been in the metropolitan Correctional Center. So I don't speak with him personal experience, but the Manhattan jail. The Federal Metropolitan Correctional Center does not have a stellar reputation for being clubbed fan. So early, earlier in the podcast, we talked about the death of Jeffrey Epstein. And I had decided, for the first time ever that I was going to write something so that I wouldn't be rambling. I hope I can deliver it succinctly. And then and then bells and Chad and anybody who wants to chime in, I can do so. But I think today's I said for our country for those who cherish our Constitution. I deeply believe in the presumption of innocence and that the presumption of innocence falls a person through the duration of the process until the accused person either pleads guilty or was convicted by jury. Despite the protest, the victims advocacy organizations This is that America, I believe, and I will continue to state that at every opportunity I have to do so also deeply believe that a person who is presumed innocent should be released pending trial so that he or she can assist with their own defense. There's no question that a person held a detention cannot adequately have the resources and the connections to permit him or her to assist with preparing for trial for a person who's not in custody has a great advantage. Prior to the bail Reform Act of 1984, it was fairly incompetent in the federal system for people to be held in detention unless the person could not post a monetary bond. That all changed when President Reagan signed the bill Reform Act and the law. The bail Reform Act made it possible for the prosecution to move for pre trial detention, regardless of whether this person could play bail. The Supreme Court upheld the bail Reform Act in 1987 and 772 vote in the case of United States versus learning. Now, if toward the three decades of the bail Reform Act, nearly everyone accused of a federal crime is subject to some type of confinement pending trial which can range from house arrest to halfway house or even at a Correctional Center center. And in the case of Mr. Epstein. And this case, Mr. Epstein was relegated to the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan, which is one of America's toughest prisons. And I remember he's he's, the victims advocates will say FDR was a coward, and that he took the easy way out. Of course, they're entitled to that opinion, I vehemently disagree. I believe that Jeffrey Epstein probably was totally dejected. Once he recognized that the American system he believed in does not actually exist. He presented many options for his pretrial release that were categorically rejected by the court, because to grant release would have been raised the victims advocates who do not share my belief in our constitutions, presumption, innocence. I believe that this, this prosecution was driven by greed, desire for fame and class the envy which is sad. In addition, Mr. Epstein complained about the harsh conditions he was subject to subject to at the Metropolitan corrections center. Could it be that he gave up on life once he realized that the system does not care? I thought our supporters claim that we favor improving conditions in our jails. If that's what we really believe that how can we say that anyone deserves this, the ultimate tragedy is that we will never know if the government had a strong case against him, or if they simply file charges to satisfy the angry mob. This is the same angry mob that drove Alex Acosta from his job as President Trump's labor secretary for his decision not to federally prosecute Epstein years ago. My final comment is that our system of justice has lost and the only people and only the people alleging to have suffered abuse, Epstein's hands will when he is now dead, which opens the door for men to make allegations which, which they which may or may not be true, the angry mob will feed on the carcasses of the Pepsi state until it's completely decimated. And then they will go after the insurance companies next. It is with sadness that I'm probably one of the few that will see the long term damage that this does our nation. Just add this to the abolition the statute of limitations, and the constant erosion of the right of the conference of confrontation, which bit victims advocates say as read victimization, it's a sad day for me. Andy 1:09:26 So on that note, though, so the article that I picked, and you can probably find 100 sources for this one, but Jeffrey Epstein dies suicide while awaiting a new sex trafficking trial. Obviously, that's the big news of the day. And you're not going to find you're not going to find a tear shed, probably by just about anybody for this guy going down. As far as like the victim at victims advocates go. Larry 1:09:52 Well, they don't believe in the Constitution. If they did, they would not take the extreme positions they take. Jeffrey Epstein is presumed innocent. And and and a person who's innocent should not be subject to the most extreme punishment that we can possibly inflict on them and one of the toughest jails we have. And his trial was set, I think for about a year from now. And the attorney said that that wouldn't even be enough because they expect that have a million pages of discovery to call through because of the extensive investigation that's gone been going on for the past year. And I Andy 1:10:28 just remembered so we had judge Persky, and I don't remember the was in New Jersey, who was the the case that we just talked about with the kid New Jersey, that was a jersey, so that that judge stepped down as well. And then Acosta, and I'm sure this has happened in other places, those are just the ones that I can remember off the top of my tongue. Those are people that the angry mob has has kicked out, because of a lack of due process in any of this. Larry 1:10:53 What they don't believe in due process. That's the whole problem. They believe just the opposite. They believe that the accusation is a condition in their mind. And they have convinced the majority of the people that the actually confronting a person who makes an accusation, that that is real victimization, and that that shouldn't happen. And they forgot that that our founding fathers intended it to be difficult to put people in a cage and to take away liberty. And it was better for for guilty people to go freedom for innocent people to be caged up. They they don't believe in all that they don't have the same belief structure that I do. And they have the right, of course, to have any belief system that they that they have. I disagree with them. And I think that the constitution supports my view. Unknown Speaker 1:11:36 Well, Larry, I can give you a quick libertarians, response to that. I said, I agree with everything you just said. I think part of the reason that we get to this point is because people call those people victims. If the guy wasn't convicted of a crime, is there really a victim yet? They are alleged victims? But but but right? Why are we using that term? These words mean things and when you use terms like that, it flares up the public. So when people claim that they're victims and everything, it just like you said, it just makes people automatically assume that the other person is guilty. Larry 1:12:16 That is That is correct. But if you use the term alleged victim, then the victims advocates come after you and say that shows you that to your advantage. be concerned, you're on the side of the criminal. Unknown Speaker 1:12:26 You don't know you're on the side of the law. Larry 1:12:28 Oh, well, but that's our position. But but that that's not their position. The victims advocates has have won this battle. they've they've convinced public opinion that that the the due process is too expensive. It's too grueling, it is too traumatizing, and that we don't need all. That's all. That's all Hocus Pocus as far as they're concerned. Andy 1:12:50 Do you do you feel there's any path to victory success to to changing the mindset in this regard? Larry 1:13:00 No, I've seen scant evidence that our population is becoming more sophisticated in terms of the dangerous I think that each time there's an erosion and further encroachment, and it makes it easier to convict people. I see public opinion being supportive of that. I don't see public saying wait a minute, I could be next I don't hear the the the Yanks that I should should hear if people were getting it, I don't think they're getting it now. Andy 1:13:25 And so along with the registry in general, you know, with all of the people that keep getting scooped up into the dragnet that that sort of seems what you know, like the lady that was on the call in Georgia forever ago. She's like, Well, my son's not affect the fender and you're like, excuse me, did he get convicted of a sexual offense? Like Yes, but he's not one of those people in your life, then he's a sex offender. So I'm wondering if this isn't sort of similar that eventually people will be like, Whoa, stop the train, that will just be enough critical mass for the tides to turn, maybe? Larry 1:13:58 Maybe, but how do we undo this stuff? Because once you've put stuff in statute, and the courts have upheld, the courts really can't protect them. So the statute limitations because that's not a constitutional right, you don't have the right to a statute of limitations. So once that's been placed in statute, where they've either abolished or severely weakened it to get mixed into for 30 to 30 years or something ridiculous like that. How do you want to do that in a political climate? Unknown Speaker 1:14:26 I think what we need to do is take a rule like they had, I don't know if they still have it. But in England, you used to not be able to comment about anybody involved in a criminal complaint, until the whole thing was resolved, whether there was a guilty or not guilty verdict. Larry 1:14:45 How would you do that? How would you square that with our first amendment rights oppressed with scream bloody murder, that the public has a right to know that these people have been that they're facing justice and what they've been accused of doing? How would you square that with the IB? What's up, the press will be all over that? I mean, I agree with you, I think, I think restrictive what's the devastation that's done to people would be a good thing. But how would we square that? Unknown Speaker 1:15:11 Well, whose rights are more important, or individual rights or collective rights more important? I mean, that's, that's where we get. That's where we get to all these discussions. And it leads to all different types of problems like, like a gay person that wants to have a baker Baker wedding cake. And he's saying that his religious objections, don't permit them to do that. So whose rights are more important, his religious rights, or the gay couples rights to purchase an item? That's we're getting into very dangerous grounds. And we really need to step back and look at these things. Larry 1:15:50 I agree with you on that. And I think that it sets up distance wired, I would err on the side of protecting the accused the power of the government, the state is enormous. The accused power for someone like Epstein, all those people out there who are just chomping at the bit that you know, that he didn't get released on bail. This is a clear example of how big money didn't make any difference. He had the best lawyers, they put forth the best arguments he offered to pay for, for government provided security and surrender his it means to travel and do everything so that he could be out pending trial, which is what our constitution if you look at the Eighth Amendment, it says no access, I can't quote it word for word, but something about no excessive bail should be required. What I read that, that if you don't allow bail, that would be considered excessive in my mind. I mean, I maybe I'm just reading too much into the eighth a member, but I think zero avail is excessive, if you make it so the person who can't get out. But now since the bill Reform Act, and the Supreme Court upheld in 87, or 72. Vote, they said that actually that the Eighth Amendment did not provide a right to bail, it just it provided right to, to not excessive bail. So if you just don't set bail, that it's not excessive, according to the Supreme Court. Unknown Speaker 1:17:09 I can't imagine in a in a country that we are ruled by laws, that people diabetes, the get into these things into such my new show that they don't, it doesn't make sense anymore. I mean, it's like, Can I take the blue pill or the red pill now, please? Larry 1:17:26 So Well, I don't know how we were drifting away. But how do we undo this stuff? If there is that sudden, light go off? And people say we've the pendulum has swung too far. We've got how to how do we undo this because legislate and legislating this stuff? It's going to be very hard. Unknown Speaker 1:17:47 I don't know that. And that's what scares me. Andy 1:17:49 And you could never get something to rise across and make a constitutional amendment. There's no way that you would get whatever 30 whatever states to ratify something like that. Never. Larry 1:18:01 Isn't it? 37 states, it's three fourths of the states. I think it's 37. I can't do three fourths a 50 in my head, man. So I believe it's 30 said Unknown Speaker 1:18:10 it's a lot. Larry 1:18:12 Well, it's got to go through both houses on a two thirds vote. And then it goes out the president it doesn't get to sign a constitutional amendment a veto, and it goes out to the states the legislature for ratification. But that's another political process and of itself, it has to take place in the States, but I believe it's 37 states. But Andy 1:18:30 But even even even like, like, like isn't is it common for like seven years for statute of limitations is I mean, even that's an arbitrary number. It's just kind of a made up thing. Larry 1:18:42 Well, there's there's no commonality, it depends on the level of the offense, their federal or state, there's, there's in Maryland, for example, there's no statute limitations for felony and the women have American listeners. But it's been that way for a number of years. But But states are just lining up one after another to Boston statute limitation after these high profile cases like, like Hastert and the doctors I can't remember his name NASA. NASA. Yeah. The it's it's it's it's a snowball is difficult to stop, because the victims have enormous, enormous cloud where they come in instead, they start whining about how that something happened them 12 years ago, nobody would believe him. So therefore, they kept it quiet. And they deserve justice. And it's just difficult to say no. I mean, there's nobody standing there saying, well, I represent the accused people I be that they can't get justice. There's no one pushing back on this stuff. Andy 1:19:39 And then the and you go after this, Mike, what was I going to say? Oh, and then it's a slippery slope. So I always use jaywalking, because it's the most stupid thing. But you know how far that then pulling, you know, so maybe you make it for murder. There's no statute of limitations and you pull that back, you keep pulling it back, and then eventually, hey, there's no statute of limitations for UJ walking, you get people getting felony convictions for jaywalking. 17 years ago? Larry 1:20:05 Well, I'm not sure jaywalking is a felony level of I Andy 1:20:07 know, but the slippery slope thing is, Larry 1:20:10 give it time. I know. Right? So well in Alabama very well could because they have some pretty harsh laws in the south particular Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. So Unknown Speaker 1:20:20 Well, we've been going downhill as far as our rights are, for a long time. A lot of this started a long time, a long time ago, when you're supposed to have the right to confront your accuser in court, and they're having all these rapes shield laws. Where does the balance go on? Being able to confront your accuser and yet not re victimizing somebody? What if she isn't really a victim and making it in you have Larry 1:20:49 there's no such thing as re victimizing somebody by book that is mumble jumble. hogwash, that our system is predicated upon the person who makes the accusation whether you say that they embezzled, what would happen if you if you if you ran a business, and you detected you'd miss $60,000. And the police came out and said, Well, we will see your audit trails will want to see this and will sit here re victimizing me. I mean, you're making accusation that you're pointing out a suspect that you think your bookkeeper did this, and they need to actually see that a crime happened. And that's not real victimizing you to say we need evidence we need we need evidence. you're wanting to put your bookkeeper in jail, we need some evidence. So that's all that's an all made up imaginary thing about victimization. You're supposed to be confronted with the accusation you're making against someone, you're supposed to undergo cross examination to see if there's a motivation for you telling an untruth. So I don't buy into anything about victimization and just not being victimization. It's just like the sex offender who says, I'm responsible for the unconstitutional laws, you may, we should never say that we agree that it's free conversation. It is not re victimization. It is the American system of justice, we have an adversarial system. Do now Do not ever concede that it's victimization. It is not. Unknown Speaker 1:22:11 And I agree with you 100%. And Larry 1:22:15 in terms of going down hill, the reason why both the bail reform back because this past with significant margins, I was quite young at 84. And I don't remember what the margins were, but it was significant margins, because we were we were worried about crime. And we're worried about those soft hearted judges turning people loose, and we need to put some controls on the judges. So the federal judges would, would not let everybody out. So that could continue to wreak havoc on society. But this was the beginning of the slippery slope that states are following now with their belt reform, including my own, you know, up until a couple years ago, we didn't have it you couldn't you couldn't set up a no bond holder on anybody. But now we're holding people left and right here free trial with no bottles. Andy 1:23:01 All right, then. Unknown Speaker 1:23:03 Anything else Mike? Unknown Speaker 1:23:06 know, you guys are running really long. I don't want to come Larry said Andy 1:23:10 a couple weeks ago, man, we had like a 150 podcasts. We're only at 120. So we're good. No. Oh, yeah. Larry, do you have anything else before we shut it down? Larry 1:23:18 Well, that's also people in chat might want to respond to my rambling statement. Andy 1:23:23 I've been I've been stoking the flames as we've been going. I think they've all quieted down for now. I threatened to ban somebody for not liking my 1111 team comments. So they've all they've all quiet down. I crack the whip. Larry 1:23:36 Well, we are just doing well, with our edition of new patrons. I don't remember if we got it this week. But we have we've had several recent weeks. So Andy 1:23:46 we appreciate you and and how do we get this? How do we get this podcast to just soar to new levels, Andy, we need everyone that listens to go out and share it with their two friends. And they'll they'll share it with two friends and so on, so on and so on. I believe that Captain crazy. He told me that he needed us to make sure that we had a super duper awesome over the top podcast because he was going to have a buddy of his over listening. And he hasn't shared with me whether he is or not. But that is how I need you people to go help us share it. Spread the word because there are a whole lot of us out there that I mean, I can't reach everybody. Larry can't reach everybody. Brenda can't reach everybody. Mike can't reach everybody. So if you guys could help pass the word along. Just politely say, Hey, hey, there's this podcast. It is the most important thing impacting your life right now. And then we can grow in numbers. That's how to do it and send them over to registry matters. That's CO that's the website. Well, I'm Unknown Speaker 1:24:40 and I I met Larry's challenge I actually gave him actually gave you guys my gross over my gross income for my gross. Andy 1:24:51 Yes, he exceeded grossly because he's unemployed. Larry 1:24:56 Well, I'm going to ask the normal affiliates, Anna, an applied email to provide a link to them, to ask them to push it out to their to their list. And perhaps they will perhaps they won't, they certainly don't have to. But that'd be another way we could if they feel it's will let people know that there's a new episode that would that would help. And remember that the views expressed on this podcast are not the views of the affiliates have normal or normal itself. They are the views of the of the of the team here. Andy 1:25:30 So Larry, how can people reach out and leave us a voicemail? Larry 1:25:33 And if I don't get a voicemail This week, we're going to shut this podcast down 7472 to 74477. Andy 1:25:43 And our email is registry matters cast at gmail. com. And Larry Of course, we were just we were just speaking about it. Mike offered to give us his net or gross whichever one that was and how do they How do they get there? Larry 1:25:55 That would be@patreon.com slash registry matters. Andy 1:26:00 Alright, and before we go, Mike, you wanted to give out your email address so people could write to you to find out more about the CDs stuff. Unknown Speaker 1:26:07 Yeah, just put it in the show notes. So I'm gonna mess it up. Okay, it's people are gonna curse me out for getting the wrong information. Well, for those of you Andy 1:26:15 it's em, desk. ENDASKY one@optimum.net. That's what you gave me. And with that, yeah, that Larry, thank you very much for joining us. And Larry, as always, thank you. And I hope you guys have a great weekend and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Andy. Unknown Speaker 1:26:34 Okay, thank you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai