Andy 0:00 registry matters is an independent production. The opinions and ideas here are that of the hosts and do not reflect the opinions of any other organization. If you have a problem with these thoughts FYP recording live from FYP Studios, east and west, transmitted across the internet. This is the penultimate episode before 100. This is Episode 99 of registry matters, Larry Happy Saturday. How are you? Well, thank you, sir. Larry 0:23 I'm doing okay, I guess for being approaching 180 100 as Andy 0:31 you are definitely old and you are certainly a curmudgeon. Larry 0:34 That's right. Andy 0:37 You're an old cranky pastor. That's all I gotta say. But you are the expert on all things. Larry, your expertise extends far past just knowing about the registry and all those things, but your your your, your strategy, your skills and all these departments is just really, I'm beyond words, honestly as to how to describe what your skill set is here. Larry 0:57 Appreciate that. The check is in the mail. Andy 1:01 That's why I send you all the money. So that's exactly why I send you all the money. Larry 1:05 But I do have a curmudgeon story you remember, but I remember when I was looking at phones the other day? Unknown Speaker 1:11 Yes. Andy 1:13 So, let me let me replay your story and you fill in the gaps. You are at the store getting a phone, because you don't like your new phone. And there's a 17 year old telling you how the law works. Larry 1:25 That would be correct. More importantly, he was telling me about sexual offense laws. Andy 1:33 And that anything with more than a four year age difference is is no, no. Larry 1:38 That's what he said. But to make the story funnier. He had already gotten on my nerves because of I have these little buttons that he pushed right away when I was asking him about phones and he was not really wanting to spend a lot of time with me. I guess he had his phone he'd rather be on and he told me that if I could pick a phone that he'd be happy Activate one and I didn't know enough to pick a phone and it was asked to embarrass questions that he answered a couple times it's up to you. I get irritated so of course everything is up to me I'm the customer if I buy a bigger phone it's up to me I said I don't know why you need to say that. It's that goes without saying it's up to me. It's kind of like when people would you say thank you they said no problem. Who the heck said there was a problem? No problem after someone says thank you it's not the response it's like that there's another pet peeve of mine What let's say thank you there's no problem Who the hell said there was a problem? Andy 2:37 Difficult unit man, you are straight up a difficult human. Larry 2:41 Well IB think about that. Thanks. No problem. Unknown Speaker 2:45 So Larry 2:46 So anyway, I was looking at phone so Thomas will just let me do some reading on independent then if I need you. I'll get back to you and, and he, he finally appears back over side of the booth. I was in the center of the Coronado mall is one of those What do you call those Island boots? They have an kiosks. kiosk. Yeah, he was he was he was on one side and I was on the other he comes back over and said you decide anything. I said, No, I think I'm going to reserve this for another day. And and I was trying to strike up some small talk and there was a girl working in one of the shops directly across. They're not the least you have a good job. You get to play on your phone, like play games. And then you have nice views of customers a predictor nearby shops. And he picked up right away when I was talking about he said, She's too old. I said she's what he said. She's to all of us a tool for what? I said what do you mean cuz Yo, she looked very young, as far as I'm concerned. And Unknown Speaker 3:46 he looked because you're 150, whatever. 250 years old. Larry 3:50 So she's too old for what he says like what do they do with her because she's too old. That's what will tell me about this. She's too old and what way he's Well, she's more than four years older than me. And I said, Really? I said, You're at least 16. He had a beard. And I thought it was something like 2021 at least. He said, I'm 17. I said, Well, you're of the age of consent. He said, No, he said, You're not right about that. He said, You have to be 18. I said, Really? I said, I thought that had to do with you if you had a position of authority, or supervisory if you had any type of control over the over the over the minor asset, but other than that, always thought it was 16. I'm not playing any of my cards at that point. I said, I thought it was 16. He said, Oh, no, he said, Everybody knows he can send us 18. And I said, Oh, really? And and he said, and then he said, even even that was the case. He said, If I was 18, he said, doesn't matter. He says she's four years older than me, and I said more than for you. So really, I said, I thought that for your age gap, a gap applied to people who were it's protecting teenagers who have sex with teenagers, we protect the people who are under 16 and the state so they could have relations with someone consensual as long as there's not more than a four year gap. Therefore, the person who's four years or less, I won't be prosecuted, and said, always thought, he said, Oh, no, he said, so. So let me get this straight. I said, as old as I am, I thought I could have sex with anybody who was over the age of consent. He said, Nope. For us. It's so I have to pick someone who's four years, within four years. And he said, Yes. He said, Everybody knows that. And I said, Everybody knows at us about that, but I'm gonna play my cards. I said, Well, I just want you to know that actually do teach this stuff. I said, recognized as an expert by courts in New Mexico, and I teach attorneys this stuff, and I said, you're just not correct on the law. And I said, but that's all right. I said, it's better for you to be safe than sorry. Yes, it's Yeah. But treat it cautiously. But he was electric mailed the law. Andy 5:49 Now, granted, I realized that this would have been something that would have been enacted later, but my parents are six years apart. So I mean, like they would be in trouble. Under his version of the law. Yes. But, but, and and what Hugh Hefner, Donald Trump. I mean, like, you can come up with scores and scores of examples where it's not just like for maybe 567 years, Trump is like 20 years older than millennia. Larry 6:14 Well, Ed McMahon who fit people remember the tonight show was the sidekick of Johnny cardless. He had, he was like 70 years old, and he had a had a child and I forget how young the wife was, but it was quite a bit younger and a decade younger. So So yes, it it. It. It was fascinating, entertaining, but I left it at that and told him that I appreciated his information, but it wasn't quite right. Andy 6:41 Well, Larry, for the breaking news, we have an update on the Georgia situation. And then there's an update from the Pennsylvania Superior Court on internet publication stuff. Let's start with the Georgia update. What can you tell me about what's going on in Georgia? Larry 6:59 Well, I can tell you that the two lawsuits I think we've touched on it in previous episodes two lawsuits have been filed in the United States District Court two different districts because of the of the setup in Georgia. They have three districts. So we have a case in the Northern District, which covers the county of Spalding. And we have a case in the Middle District, which covers the county of butts. The the Spalding county officials decided that they were not going to put the signs up in 2019. So therefore, the injunction request was was was really booted by their action. You no longer have an emergency situation. So that cases on the back burner, it didn't go away because they didn't agree that settled saying that they would never do it again. They said they weren't doing it 2019 and butts county sheriff, Sheriff Gary along is decided that he's going to take this all the way to the Supreme Court. What if he has to, did he say that? That's what he said that he's got, oh my god, Andy 7:55 I didn't know about the Supreme Court part. Larry 7:57 So so we had We had a hearing on the injunction Thursday. And then yesterday the parties were were ordered to, to prepare briefs from each side and submit them by 5pm. They were the brace were submitted yesterday. And I've read the briefs. The The decision is pending. And I anticipate a decision prior to Halloween. I can't tell you what day the courts got to issue the stage. And I can tell you that the later that they issue it, the better it is. For us in case we get to junction because there's less time for this for the county to appeal to the circuit. We had observers in the courtroom, we had at least two that I know of, and I think you know, one of the observers. Andy 8:42 I know I know both of them actually. And I know one of them incredibly well. Larry 8:46 And I think you could tell us in terms of your of your observations that how the hearing went down and in a couple minutes synopsis I think you told me you felt pretty, pretty positive about about to hearing so let's hear what what observations were, Andy 9:01 let me ask you this. And I'll ask you this upfront. To me, it seems that the whole thing is hinges upon this idea of what is the quote unquote, right of way. And whatever the standard wherever it comes from, they're saying that it's 30 feet feet from the center line of the highway. So, you know, maybe the road is I think, like 12 or 15 feet wide. So then you would have another 1015 feet on the other side into the property that is not yours. And I've kind of always known that this existed, but you take care of it. If you don't take care of it, someone's going to come thump you on the forehead and say you need to take care of it. So it's like, it's yours, but it's not yours. And I'm really, to me, it seems the whole thing hinges on how the judge feels about what they call the right of way. Do you have any input on that concept? Larry 9:51 I don't, I don't know enough about what would constitute right away. I don't think the decision is going to turn on that I really don't because that is a really awful A irrational argument by that, by that standard, the sheriff could go put signs for his reelection in front of your house, I'd say, huh, I'm the greatest sheriff, and it's in front of your yard. And that would apply that you endorsed that candidate. And you couldn't take it down, because so the writer, that's crazy. Andy 10:19 And then they brought up the Alabama driver's license debacle. And from that, the, you know, there were there four standards that they have to meet to prove compelled speech. And, you know, here's a government document, it is directly associated with you and has a message that you didn't agree to, and I don't remember what all the four things were. And the judge was explicitly making the comparison. He's like, I don't care about the right of way necessarily, but here's a sign it doesn't say you're a quote unquote, registrant, but it says, you know, this is a dangerous person living here. Now we're long may have screwed up as last year he made a Facebook post saying I'm putting the signs in front of these people to guards to identify them as these kind of people. So he made the association. That is where I was like, This is what the judge is going to rule on, he's going to because regardless of even if it's on the other side of the street pointing, or even if it's like at the neighbor's houses pointing towards your house, they are still totally associating that message with you. And to me, I felt like that's where it was going to go. Larry 11:25 Well, there's so many arguments in this case that the county's making. They're claiming they were voluntary. And in fact, in their briefing, they said they're in our final closing brief. They said, it was proffered that maybe they should ask the registrants if they would voluntarily post the signs and have them sign a waiver saying that they would do that. And I'm just betting if you go up and say, Look, you ain't required to do this and no penalty will befall you, but we'd like you to post this. I bet it won't be very many takers. What do you bet? I can just about guarantee you that nobody would say yep, yep, yep, that's where we should be. That's what we should do. The one person that would be a sex offender named Jake golden flame who used to go out campaigning to keep a close eye on sex offenders and he was one himself but other than that golden flame I don't think anybody in the right mind would want a sign put it in their yard that identified them as a sex offender even though it doesn't say sex offender. Everybody knows that the signs are in front of the sex offenders Andy 12:18 yards and another part that I thought was interesting was where they they said that this is government property and you can't do anything to modify it remove it, you know, anything like that. And someone said, well, Could someone take a trash can and put it on top of it? Because now you're not removing it or violating it. You're just making it so campy displayed. But yeah, so that right of way area would be used for for speed limit sign, okay. And I was like, man, I don't know how you how you thread that needle of like, you know, that's carrying the government's message per se. Larry 12:58 So well, but But that's a spirit of a science or don't read a person's yard. Andy 13:03 They're not on the right away in front of someone's house ever. Larry 13:07 Well, I've never said one in my yard. Andy 13:09 Not necessarily your yard, but like in your neighbor say Larry 13:12 when I've never seen one in anyone's yard Andy 13:15 their speed limit signs in your neighborhood, Larry in front of somebody's house. Larry 13:19 Yes, but they're not in the yard itself. That way, they're there we refer to as a setback. There's, there's, there's there's a there's an area between the street and then there's some dirt, and then there's a sidewalk and they're usually in that dirt setback area between the street and the sidewalk. But as far as being over in someone's yard, I don't think I could ever recall saying aside and someone's yelling. Andy 13:40 Okay. Um, and then the final point that I wanted to bring up is the way that the sheriff presented the argument that well, could you get enough deputies to go sit in front of everybody's houses and goes, Well, yeah, I mean, this would effectively do the same thing, but the sign method is more efficient. And that made me think about the Supreme Court case with the GPS stuff where they said, Hey, we're just going to put this GPS tracker in somebody's car. And because that's more efficient than doing, you know, boots on the ground, following somebody from point to point to log other places, I'm sorry, you don't get the privilege of having to be more efficient. You have to, you have to exercise some level of resources to do your job. Larry 14:22 well beyond that, just they have no right to sit in front of people's house and interfere with trick or treating. You have the right in the state of Georgia to hand out candy, to be polite to enjoy the costumes to admire the people to engage with the up. There is no law Sheriff log, you have no right to do this. It might be a good idea in your mind, but you didn't get legislative approval. And when you do get legislative approval, which is exactly where this is headed. This is going to go to the legislature and they're going to try to pass the law and we're going to do everything we can to kill it nowhere don't challenge it and constitute constitution of that. But you have no right and that never came up. argument you might not like to see sex offenders having someone kiss on their door that's not your prerogative as Sheriff to like or dislike that it's not unlawful for them to knock at door and hand out candy that's for your nutshell flow your complete certifiable. Andy 15:18 So yeah, that's the that's the the George that was at the hearing. It was very I'm always fascinated by going into that environment where I really am. It's it's neat. The watching the jousting, I like debates. I just do Larry 15:33 call me crazy, but well, which way is the court gonna? Andy 15:38 I I think I would have to say it's like 5050, but I'm inclined to lean that that were victorious. Larry 15:46 Well, we'll find out between Monday and Wednesday. Andy 15:49 And then what's the update with Ben whole county. Larry 15:52 Ben Hale County is another county, relatively small county. The county seat would be Fitzgerald and if I just a little bit Southwestern You I think, sort of myself if you say announced their they announced that they're going to be doing Halloween science. So Marshall did Ben Hill county a favor. We said them the same letter that we sent to these two counties last year cautioning them not to do that. And anybody affiliate with the shares, apparatus, a law enforcement, Bertha Georgia listing, we're being nice to you, we're telling you, we are going to sue you to next year. We probably won't get you sued this year. So you'll get to have your fun this year. But we're going to take a poll of all the registrants have been Hilltown and find out what happened. And we will unless we lose these lawsuits were coming after you been Hill county and any other county and Georgia that wants to stand up and do this. We're ready for you. We've got a cookie cutter complaint ready. And we're going to come at you and we're going to put an end to this nonsense and the state of Georgia. I mean, I'm sorry, you don't get to make it. You don't get to make up your own walls to do it. You want to do? You put on that badge and you put your head on that Bible and you swore you would uphold the law. You're not a lawmaker. If you don't like the law, there's a process for you to seek change of law but the law doesn't permit you to do this and we're going to shut you down. Andy 17:16 I will tell you one thing about that county, then hell county I was about 20 minutes away and I like my phone went completely dark, no signal. I have two SIM cards on my phone. So I have two phone numbers and both sets of towers I have TMobile and at&t dead nothing. They are so far out in the sticks have nothing. I don't know how anybody survives in a county like that. There can't be any reasonable jobs. I don't know how that works. Larry 17:43 Oh, it is it is in the boonies, but, like 17,000 subpopulation with the county, so they probably have 3040 people registered. Andy 17:53 Yeah, I know that in Bucks County. They were saying 57 registrants and butts isn't might be a big county but the population Jackson is not very big, Larry 18:02 but just a little over 20,000. And the the number of offenders is somewhat distorted because the Georgia diagnostic and classification and tech center for the prisoners who, who are going to Georgia prisons, I said it's a butts County. Unknown Speaker 18:16 Well, the 57 was excluding those folks. Larry 18:19 Yes. And I was gonna say the number looks a lot larger than what it really is. Because if you pull down the list, they have all the people who are in the in the present on there, but those people are not reporting into this year. Andy 18:32 I understand and then let's move on over to Pennsylvania since we're our update is taking forever, but let's go over there real quick. Larry 18:40 Well, we actually did a deep dive rattle just to highlight this. We can do it. We can do a little bit more of a deep dive later, but the Pennsylvania Superior Court issued a decision yesterday or the day before very recently, that that internet publication is a violation of the Ex Post Facto Clause. And although it's a really good decision, it is. It is narrow, and it's very narrow because you have to have been pre 2012. For this apply to you. This is a nice applied ruling. And it's not the highest tribunal in the state. But it is it is a very important very good decision and we can dig into a little bit later. But as I caution when the case of Mendez came down, I said, and I got chastised for saying this, that the legislature will do their best to reinstate registration with its go as far as they can to test the limits of how far they can go. Because laws are presumed constitutional. So they reinstated the internet publication, when they passed enactments in 2018, in response to the Supreme Court decision and then would as decision and now one small part of that been stricken. And I don't expect this to end. And I know I'm not supposed to say this because it really drives me bananas. But I expect them to try one more time. They're not going to stop trying to have internet publication and just throw in the towel. It's not my desired outcome, but I expect that they will try, they will, they will possibly ask the Supreme Court to review this decision. And then if they get the same outcome that got him in is that they'll probably go back to the legislature and probably try to craft a slightly narrow application or the internet and make sure it doesn't apply to everybody and see how far they can go. That's what legislators do. And that's what they're likely to do but that is not what I prefer. They do. Andy 20:45 I think you'd like it when people chastise you. Larry 20:48 Well, it's funny because they they say I never I never say anything positive. And I said well, okay, well, I can tell Okay, they're gonna throw in the towel. There won't be any more. I mean, the registration is gonna go away tomorrow. Of course. Nobody the In the right mind believes that but but I think that they're going to continue to fight. They're not going to want to let go of the of the internet publication. I mean, I'm not saying that but I'm going to eventually witness I think eventually we are going to win this. It Andy 21:13 does seem like a pretty pretty far stretch. I mean, the way that you know, when it started in, you know, whatever the Alaska stuff and man, everybody relies on the internet for everything to have your junk just posted out there is certainly beyond what anybody else has to go through. So now you've just got this one little group of people that have their their junk published. Oh, Larry 21:35 yes, indeed. But what most registrants when they started didn't even the internet had hadn't even even evolved to the point where there was an internet database. It wasn't until the late 90s that they started illuminating everybody of the registrants. Andy 21:47 Moving on to a question from our new patron, john. We had a pretty big thorough question from him last week, and he gave a little bit of a follow up I guess this will be this I know according to the textual his view of A civil regulatory scheme, the registration liability is completely universal, that one must register if convicted of a sex offense. But what is Larry's living constitutional view of someone who is not required to register in the jurisdiction of their conviction, but must register elsewhere when told? I guess that's somebody moving from state to state be and then they have a registration requirement and state be? Is that what he's asking? Larry 22:23 I think that's what he's trying to ask. But he's not very simply asking that question, which which makes us have to guess at what what what he's what he's asking. There is there are some states that have in their registration statute that if you have to register anywhere you have to register there. But but but not by all means. states don't have that clause in there. Just because you have to register that debt that's that starts with a false premise. What happens is that different states have different periods of where they cover what they consider a covered registered sex offender. They have different offense lists and sauce lists some cover more than others list Andy 23:04 this is this, this is one. Larry 23:06 And and the the, the this. So it's all individualized to that state. It's back to my automobile example that I give repeatedly. If you take your exempt vehicle from a state, where you don't have to do an emissions inspection, where they're more lenient, and particular, the arid western states where there's not a lot of people, and air quality is not generally a problem. And you take it to a more densely populated North Eastern corridor, where there's a lot denser population, and air quality is potentially a bigger problem. The fact that you're exempt from registry and ambition expected expecting smog inspected your car is have no relevance to New Jersey, they could care less. And and so when you have a registration obligation ends in Georgia, because Georgia removes you as long as the state that you go to has a registry escape that hasn't been declared punished but an unconstitutional if they have a different definition, they can wind up that clock all over again. They can say, well, you're dead your time in Georgia on the registry, you met their civil obligations, you haven't met your civil obligations here. We have a 25 year period of time, you were only the only other edge for seven years. And in fact, we don't even give credit for the for the seven years you're on a Georgia for you got off. So therefore, you'll have to register for at least 25 years while you're here. And I don't think the constitution comes into play here boards, whether it's a whether it's a texture lyst or evolving. I don't see that I don't see the correlation there. Because until registration to a particular until a particular states registration scheme is declared unconstitutional, because it's punishment. They can apply it to a person retro actively they can, they can offer the terms as long as they don't increase the terms to the point like some states are those increases those don't enhancements at the barrier to punishment. Michigan, Pennsylvania, some states have done that. And they've been slapped down by their courts but but I'm really struggling with where he's trying to go with the question. I don't think that they're living or the textual his view has anything to do with this issue. It has to do with whether the state's registry has been proven to be punishment, or not, if it has been, you may not have to register if you have an older conviction, and they say that they can apply, apply these enhanced requirements to you. Because your conviction is too old, you may you may be home free, but otherwise, a person may have to register despite the fact they've been removed from another state. Andy 25:35 And then we could try and go down the path where the guy moved to North Carolina. This was probably a year ago that we talked about this. The guy moved to North Carolina and he goes into the office and says Do I have to register and they go No. And then he moves to a new county and SNES again, and then they said yes, and then he got messed up for not registering but they would have never known he was there had he not shown up in the office. Larry 25:55 I think he went in twice to Wake County Office. He when he just got like gold The fact that there's people out there that just cannot accept the fact they don't have to register. Andy 26:05 Larry, Larry, to be fair, it is someone does not want to get jammed up for not following the rules appropriately, and they don't trust that they're going to get jammed up for not following the rules. Larry 26:15 I understand the fear. It is. It is there. But what I asked people to show me the prosecution's for this, I can never get anyone to show me what there's theoretically you could be 72 hours of one made no to state and they could prosecute you if they if they have that cause. I have not been provided with any evidence that I bought the national and the state criminal offense or its listener and I have never had a case like that come to me. Now I have had cases where people have actually moved to the state not being temporarily present but moved to the state. And they're like, past the three days that they've gotten prosecuted because the state that they move from notified them and that gave them the address where they said they were going to They didn't make it in within the period of time. And I have heard of those. But we're a person who's actually just been driving through a state. And has there has I have never heard. So yes, the fear is there. But there's just because you have the fear doesn't make it realistic, does it? Andy 27:16 No, absolutely not. And I've shared before, man, this is within a handful of months of beginning out. And so my boss made special arrangements to fly into Atlanta. I picked him up and we drove south. And then like, as soon as I crossed the Florida line, start the clock. And, man, we have to be out in 48 hours. And we're like hauling ass to get out of the state in time. And I think I was in the state for about 51 or two hours. And I made it Larry 27:42 probably ran a greater risk by speeding, drawing attention to yourself and if you just acted like a normal human being and taking your time, you Unknown Speaker 27:51 are you are 100% correct. Larry 27:53 But But uh, but I was saying that just because you have a fear when I passed, police holding guns, I have a fear that those guns could could could be turned on maybe that doesn't mean that's a realistic fear but view of the recent police shootings, maybe those are realistic fear. But just because you have a fear that doesn't make it legitimate. Andy 28:10 I completely completely completely agree with you. But there is certainly a higher degree chance of getting shot with a gun president than not. Larry 28:18 Well, that's what I'm saying. I think that that fear or realistic, then the fear of I'm going to be an estate 73 hours that are going to prosecute me. I have not unearthed a case like that yet. And I always issue the challenge. Please show me the case. There's several challenges I'll be issued I've issued the one per person says, Well, I get violated I've got revoked for simply failing a polygraph. I said what shall be the petition revoke for all it says is you felt a polygraph? That's all it says. And there are no petition has ever been on earth that says I failed a polygraph this show deception, and they made several incriminating admissions after that in the post polygraph and You that's what's actually in the petition, or they've shown me petitions that said that they felt one or two paragraphs and then their treatment was, was terminated. And then the petition revoked, says conditional probation was successfully participating complete treat, but personal terminate from treatment and the basis for the for the termination. Was there the polygraph? That's not the same thing as I made it indirectly. Yes. But that's not to say petitioner saying they just simply show deception on a polygraph. It's good, but it's splitting hairs, but it's not the same thing. Andy 29:33 Yeah. And before we get too far removed from it, Mike and chances I'll lend my Geiger counters needed, as if you know if you're in the state for too long so that you can see if you're emitting radiation. Larry 29:44 Well, we appreciate that Geiger counter. I would like to use it next time. I'm trying to wait to see how well it picks up. Because next time we have a conference, we can try that. Andy 29:53 Yes. Especially if there's a whole bunch of us in one consolidated place you think that the Geiger counter would go off more Larry 30:00 Well, that's the whole thing. But like people when they're at the conference, well, if I'm here 73 hours, okay, okay, when's the last time you've seen law enforcement circulating through a hotel conference? checking it will cost as over time? I've never seen it. And I've never found anybody who's seen that happen. But they have the fear that the cops, really the cops are going to go through circulating through the hotel and say, I think there might be some sexual offenders that are there that are that are beyond the 72 hours. lyst Yep, there's one over there. I mean, Andy 30:32 it should that show me your plane ticket. When did you arrive and they're going to go interview the 200 people at the conference to see each and every one of them arrived. So Larry 30:39 but now it is remotely possible if you were to have an event at the hotel that required sequestration of the property, if they were to be a mass shooting or something. I haven't figured the mass shooting but probably take priority over sex offenders. But if you had some event, if you had, if you had Legionnaires disease or something and they had they had a quarantine, it's possible that I could discover a personal But it's so remote that you'd spend your energy be were better spent doing other things. But if you want to live a life of being that concerned about imaginary Boogeyman, you remind me up the sheriff's who are promoting imaginary Boogeyman up on Halloween. I mean, you can you can convince yourself that there's a Boogeyman out to get you now they are out to get you there's no doubt about that. There are people sitting out in registration offices that are out to get you. But they're going to get you on something just a tad bit more than that. They're going to get you on being late on your 90 day. They're going to get you on failure to report an automobile that you've been driving for two weeks and you're supposed to report it within 72 hours. They're going to get you all those little trivialities. They're not going to get you that you were in the state of Georgia for 73 hours. But they get you Andy 31:51 and you know, you could end up in some sort of a benign thing like you have a teeny little fender bender that the police get called into which Larry 31:58 I'm familiar with I've heard I've heard of people. I've talked to people. Andy 32:07 All right, let's let's move into the meat and potatoes of this show, Larry. Larry 32:12 All right, Unknown Speaker 32:13 I like poking fun at you for that one, by the way. Andy 32:16 Um, this first one comes from main public.org. And it's 22 months in solitary violated main main inmates rights, but he's not entitled to damages. Judge rules. How do you spend 22 months in solitary confinement? And they said I think they said it's like, it's five, five days a week of 24 hours a day and then only a handful of hours on those other two days to give you some some wreck time. That's insanity. And I thought it was I Larry 32:45 thought it was I thought it was a reverse he had five days a week for was out an hour a day and then two days, okay, where it was not. Yeah, Andy 32:51 yeah, let's split hairs over that one. And when he's on the quote unquote yard when he's in the cage that has open air he's cuffed, not like you can move around like this. insanity. And so then they said, well, the all we needed from the prison was that they had justification for to keep you locked up in there. So sorry, you're screwed. I don't like this. Larry 33:12 I wasn't able to see a pinion attached to this. I just was able to read the article. So it's difficult to, to really give a lot of pontification one way or the other. But I can say that sometimes judges hands are tied because he's not entitled to damages because the law doesn't provide any. Now you don't want being a good constitutional Texas, you don't want judges legislating from the bench and creating something that just isn't provided for a law that would you Unknown Speaker 33:44 know, absolutely not. Larry 33:46 I think the bulk of our conservative audience would not want that. And so it could very well be that the judge didn't have the ability to grant him relief. It could have been he used the wrong vehicle to try to get relief, meaning that the wrong cause of action It may be in a habeas corpus. They may I don't know what he felt, like I said, I don't have any here to work with. But it could be that that particular vehicle doesn't provide the type of relief he was looking to in terms of damages. So it we don't know that the court did anything wrong based on the information we have here. But what we do, though, is it 22 bucks in solitary confinement is something that the state of Maine ought to take very seriously. And they ought to look at how much latitude they're providing their prison administrators. And they ought to do what we did. And we've limited the corrections department on how they can utilize solitary confinement because we determined that they could not self discipline, and do it's kind of like for some women to give birth with their with their hands and shackles and everything. They couldn't do the right thing themselves. So we had to legislate and limit what they can do in solitary confinement. And I can't tell you word for word, but we did but the corrections department here has been limited and that may be what needs to be done in May as well. Andy 34:57 I'm pretty sure let's see I the human Rights Watch, I guess is what it is they said that anything more than 15 days is considered a human rights violation. And correct me if I'm wrong, my math isn't so strong 22 months is longer than 15 days. Larry 35:10 Well, but that human rights and international global this thing, America, we don't need to be paying attention to. I mean, foreign law has nothing to do with us. And we are the beacon of human rights. And if we do it in America, it passes every standard. There's no one should even question anything America does, and you're unpatriotic even suggest that we should be bound by anything that someone in the rest of the world says Who are they to tell the United States of America what to do and what constitutes a human rights violation where the Savior and the protector of human rights all over the world that just totally offensive to me. Andy 35:46 And then you really make me want to bring up children in cages but we shouldn't go there. All right, well, let's move over go ahead finish. Larry 35:54 That that's that's the that would be the reaction to a lot of people out there in terms of not The only time we want to rely on international laws when it suits our purposes, and all of a sudden, people who say that thumb their nose international law they sell well, that's a violation of international law. And I thought, Wait a minute, oh, does international law come into play? Or is it American law? Which is it? Because you like to thumb, your nose international law most of the time, and then you'll site to international law when it suits something that you would that you'd like to see in so so that is international law relevant or is it just situations like situational ethics, ethics, you're either an ethical person, or you're not an ethical person? situational, situational ethics, or that that's no good. Andy 36:41 Can you I think, I think the answer to this is the UN only has I guess, if there's like a larger Council, but they would collectively sanction a country that is not playing by the rules, but there's no they don't have any, like law enforcement apparatus as you like to call it. They don't have any way That, you know, they're not going to come invade the United States and lock up people for for some sort of violation in the country. They're just going to say you guys can't play in this playground anymore. Larry 37:10 But I just issue reports and confirmations and pointed pointed out that the main like there's travel or for countries visiting America about a civil rights, questionable Civil Rights Practices here Human Rights Practices. You know, we don't we don't we're not too fond of honoring all of our international treaty obligations in terms of giving them access to their foreign government. But course we get very upset of Americans held and we can't have access, you know, it's a different story. It's well, you know, it goes both ways, though, Andy 37:46 huh? I do. I do. I was just having a conversation with someone in chat about hypocrisy about, you know, doing something along the same lines just on a smaller scale. Larry 37:54 As as Georgia government former Georgia governor less than less dramatic said hi Aqui se, Andy 38:01 oh sorry, I need to figure out how to pronounce that word better. Let's move over to an article from wired. com the delicate ethics of using facial recognition in schools. The growing number of school districts are deploying cameras and software to prevent attacks. But the systems are also used to monitor students and adult critics. Only like very, very loosely tangentially related to the registry that the article features someone that kind of got in trouble and wants to go to maybe his sister's graduation and like within seconds of this kid sitting down, they, you know, the, whatever the sheriff's deputies come and asked him his name and escorted him out, because they got high resolution cameras looking at the people visiting into the school and escorting you out if you fit onto the no no lyst I Larry, you know, I keep saying this as much as in favor of computers and artificial intelligence. I think it's coming down the pike and I think it's a wonderful thing. There are certainly places that it's going to get misused. And we need Seriously sequester how these things are used and I don't think that this is the right way to use it. Larry 39:05 Well, let's just be clear so so that we don't we don't mislead people. This was at a us on a steamy may evening or 9000 people had filed into theory thing array our house at the stadium in Texas City which they have huge stadiums for high school football is just an enormous thing in Texas they almost funded some of their high schools better than college teams. But this was this was the the the thousands of people at this event and they they were running facial recognition and everybody who entered the stadium Andy 39:40 I just see this as being right for opportunities to be misused or miss identify people because you know can only be x accurate and you know that now this let's just hypothetically say that that person was Miss identified and now he got him perhaps embarrassed by having the police come up and ask him questions, man I just hate this stuff. I really do. I don't think this is the right way to go. Larry 40:03 Well, the the school administration defends it because they say that it the district says it doesn't intend to watch students rather official say they want to keep out on Welcome to source including suspended students and local sex offenders. Andy 40:19 Well, riddle me this How are they not watching students if they're watching everyone to see if someone fits the profile? Larry 40:26 Well, but we're not going to misuse the information and you don't understand. We we have the best of intentions and our intentions are pure. We're trying to keep the children who've been entrusted direct care, safest I can possibly be. And all we want to do is to use this not to spy on them, but to protect them. I don't know why. You liberal do gooders are always out there trying to undermine law enforcement and then you gripe about what a dangerous society you live in, and then you try to tie our hands so we can't do our jobs. All we're trying to do is bring Increase the element of safety. What is it with you people that you're always trying to and the tire hands and undo good things. Privacy man, fourth amendment. We're not gonna, we're not going to put this out for the world to see. You see how we use that responsibly. We took a suspended student who had been a disciplinary problem out of the event, and we kept the events, bows and call for everybody. That's a good thing, right? Unknown Speaker 41:28 Of course until someone misuses it. Andy 41:32 Who would do that? Unknown Speaker 41:34 Who would do it you say? Larry 41:36 Who I mean, people who work in law enforcement and work in school districts are of the purest intentions. You wouldn't even be working with the kids if you didn't have the most most honorable intentions. I made that everybody knows that. Okay, Andy 41:49 yeah. And I got visited by the Popo today to update my registry information and he was super friendly and courteous and You know, he was here for, I don't know, two minutes and was on his way. So yes, what is it night, let's say 95% of them but man, there are some seriously bad apples and those bad apples are really making people die. Not a fan. Larry 42:13 I couldn't tell you what's going to happen our us more serious now if everybody discounts and disregards everything is set up. Now. What does this happening here is this giant new industry is proliferating across the country. Because of the advancements and the relatively low cost of technology. These are 10s of thousands, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of dollars these districts were spending on this, but that this is a huge business at once this apparatus is in place at all the schools, you will never dismantle it, you will never get rid of it the time to say something is to speak up now. And but once it's in, it's not leaving, and this was going to be like the rest of the industrial complex and spring up. You're going to You're going to have this stuck with it for eternity. Andy 43:04 I do understand, Larry. And now we're going to move over to an article from the Shelby star, Cleveland County law enforcement embraces online interaction. This is an article that talks about the law enforcement apparatus. I really like that term that you use for this, that they will ask their people on Facebook or on I guess, probably pretty much just on Facebook and say, Hey, this, this thing happened at this time and this address if you have any input feedback, if you you know, and they're just asking the community to help them police and people are sending in pictures or they recognize a person in a picture, and they're able to apprehend people significantly faster, which I I can see some challenges of people misusing it, but like, why would that be a bad thing? Larry 43:50 Well, in addition to what you described the they use if you went to a major city police department these days, they have significant internet operation I mean, they're they're monitoring people's social media as well. Because something about criminals, they just have a habit of they have to communicate with one another. And as as, as a means of communication. I've evolved. People have gravitated using social media. So a lot of crimes are solved because of the criminals themselves and the trail they labeled social media. So those of you out there are committing crimes. Just remember the police are watching you on social media as well. Andy 44:28 Seems like it would be a bad idea to not use some kind of encrypted communication if you're going to be a criminal mindset. Larry 44:37 But, again, you have to remember that sometimes people commit crimes are not all that savvy. That's how they get caught. Andy 44:45 Yeah, there's a it's funny, there was an article I read in Wired Magazine, and you know, we just covered an article from them, but this was like from 2010 or something like that. And some math whiz had figured out how to game lottery scratch off cards like that. There was a certain pattern that you could predict which ones would win. And but he even knowing which ones would win and how fast he would have to buy them. And he could only earn like 60 grand a year. And he goes, I make more than that as a math researcher or scientist or other. So it was like, I mean, I appreciate that I got to figure it out, but it's not worth my time. Larry 45:20 So he could beat the system, but he couldn't beat it enough to make it worth the while. Andy 45:23 Yeah, I mean, like, who wants to sit there and do scratch off all day? That would be tedious. That would be one of the most tedious jobs you could ever imagine, right? Just sitting there with a coin scratching off the little gold dust, whatever. Unknown Speaker 45:35 Well, what did you say it paid though. It was like Andy 45:37 60 grand is what I remember the article saying but he in his mathematical genius job that he was in he made more than that. And I just use that as a reference to go. People that are that, you know, they're more they're more educated, they have higher paying jobs, whatever. They don't need to commit criminal acts. Typically, because it's not an most crimes are economically incentives. Larry 46:00 That's, that's something that's still open to debate by by the people who share that belief. And I do share that there's a lot of economics, but there are people who believe that, and this good old country we live in, there's not any reason in the world for a person to commit anything criminal, because you can, the opportunities are out there, and you can just pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and there was no reason for that. So that's not a universal acceptance of economics, Dr. criminality, the data show that show that it does. But people, despite the data don't agree. Andy 46:34 Well, it certainly isn't the only thing but I bet if you know, let's just throw a number out 75% of crimes or somebody is in poverty, and they need to get something accomplished. So they figured that that's a path of least resistance, including the risk. Larry 46:49 Well, now you're going to cause medical off a detour here, because you're talking you're talking, you're talking about economics. I'd be like economic statistics and math. I'm not a mathematical wizard. I profess that, but I do know how to do basic addition, subtraction, multiplication division. And I was listening to a talk show today and they were talking about the mathematical meaning the harmonic mean. And I believe that was a term Can you explain what the harmonic mean is on in the context was if you buy, it was about dollar cost average. And so if you buy 100 shares of stock for $10, and the price falls by 50%, and you buy 100 shares for $5. Your average cost is what what everybody immediately says 750. But that's not your average cost per share. If you add up the $1,000 in the 15 to the $500, which comes to 1500 dollars and you divide that by 200 shares, you have an average cost of 660 6.6 to seven per share. And he said the reason why the difference is because they they the the mathematical, the arithmetic me mean versus the harmonic means so what is the harmonic me man, Andy 47:58 I'd never heard of it. Until you just said it, I looked it up and I see that Pythagorean is in there. So that's like the thing with the triangles the Pythagorean Theorem. Got me man, I would have to like poke down and study that one for a minute. Got me Larry 48:10 No idea. Okay, so I will will will but but like at first blush if you ask somebody what their average cost per share would be they would say 750 because if you pay 10 for 100 you paid five for another hundred and the mean would be 750 but that's not the average cost if you take 1500 dollars divided by 200 that's not what each year cost you. I agree with that. Okay, well, let's get back to the show Unknown Speaker 48:32 but yeah, sorry for the math teacher. Larry 48:35 I had to I had to figure out I learned something new today but I still don't understand it. Andy 48:40 I'm to can you see a negative angle on Leo using social media to try and get tips and stuff like that? Larry 48:50 Well at first blush, no. As is anything that I'm sure that as as time progressive, and they enhance and they push the limits of what what law enforcement does. It really does. It's what human nature typically does. As we push the limits and the boundaries, I'm sure as time goes along, we'll find that something that they do is is over the top, that nobody shouldn't be doing that. But right now, since I'm not a big user of social media, I don't, I don't, I don't know what the word those limits aren't, where they should be, and what law enforcement will do, that will test those limits, but you can be assured they will test the limits. Andy 49:24 Part of the idea behind Facebook is, you know, they're all about building communities and your community could be that you have a certain kind of legal expertise Larry, and you could have meetings with similar minds across the globe. It doesn't have to be communities in your neighborhood, so to speak. And this provides a way at least in theory that people have your your city you know, some sort of geographic, you know, where you're in proximity to them that you guys have some kind of community and you're pulling each other along and encouraging and, and so forth. I that's one of the founding principles behind Facebook besides them, trolling all of your information and selling it to, for for nefarious purposes. Larry 50:07 No, not Facebook. Andy 50:10 That's going to be, it's gonna be fun to watch that develop over all these periods of time and of how much stuff they're collecting about you even if you have no Facebook account, even if you block everything. They are still gathering troves and troves of information about what your interaction with the world is. It's very, very, very strange is a very disturbing amount of information that they're gathering Larry 50:32 photos on Facebook is connected can collecting on all those millions who are not connected to the brick. Andy 50:38 I don't have a Facebook account and so many websites, even the company that I work for, we have Facebook trackers to gather analytics and you know, even if they don't know who you are, they know who you are, like in on the outside, they don't have necessarily a name and a face to an anonymous code of some kind. They still have a pretty good idea who Larry is. Let's make Move over to an article from man this totally looks like Oreo online but it's Oregon live. Oregon judge ordered woman to type in her iPhone past go to police could search it for evidence against her that this is a breach of the Fifth Amendment. Larry, you should never have to reveal your password back so they could say you have to reveal your the combination to your safe and if you don't, then they hold you in contempt and you get put in jail for that. This woman crashed a car and they want to get into her phone and I'm not sure why they want to get into her phone what evidence are trying to get off the phone. But anyway, so judge says she has to unlock the phone and I think they put her in jail for some period of time because she wasn't cooperating. Larry 51:42 That is correct. And not only a judge said at the Oregon Court of Appeals said that she has to and and people people at first blush they say no but it's not as simple as you would think it is. You have the right not to testify against yourself, but is is unlocking the phone testimonial. It would be like I said, I knew a person used to make obscene prank phone calls. And if if a judge orders you to speak a particular set of words that were recorded on the receiving if anybody has a question answer machine anymore but whatever device people leave messages on, if if a judge says speak these words, that's not testimonial, or if the judge says your order to have your genital photograph because they're complaining witness said that there was a particular scar, whatever that's not testimonial, if your order to give your fingerprints that's not testimonial if your order to give your DNA, so this is just not as clear cut as one but what Thank you first blush because she wasn't being ordered to testify. She was being ordered on a phone that had been taken into custody for which our warrant had been issued. Through establishing of probable cause she was ordered to assist in the search of the device that had been ordered by a court to be searched. And that's that's what makes this so, so unique and there's little case law. In fact, in Oregon, they could not they could not even site to any any Oregon case on point. So they consider this to be a matter of first impression, because there was no case law so they had to look at it case law from other jurisdictions. I'm from the Supreme Court. So I went through and did my typical markups on here. So those who were interested in the case of Oregon vs. Pittman, it is it is for the legal gurus. It's a fun read to figure out to go through how they, how they discern what's testimonial, what isn't. And then there was a doctrine I've never heard of, and I'm trying to thumb through that as the decision to say that I said gee, I've never even heard of that Dr. The foregone conclusion doctrine, as discuss later is a term of art. The Member jurisprudence defended oppose the state's motion argued that the war was over broad and compelling, hard to discuss if it would violate the constitution, but I wasn't familiar with the foregone conclusion. So I don't I don't have enough to opine about that. But but there's some good reading in here. For those who would like to read court decision, I might have to read that one. I'm very interested in this fifth amendment thing. And I know that something that you are, which would be a biometric signal, so that would be a fingerprint and Iris scan, something like your face lock that people use a lot. Those are not going to be protected by Fifth Amendment, but something stuck inside your little brain, your little gray matter up there that somehow is protected. I just get troubled with this kind of stuff, Larry, that the amount of information that not somebody that has a $30 phone but somebody that had you know, they store all of their family photos, they have their banking information, they have all of their contacts, they have all of their email, they have all of this data on their phone and that shouldn't be I think that should to some degree because outside of the realm of, you know, like a search warrant. If they're looking for, hey, we're looking for drug paraphernalia, and they find a whole arsenal of weapons. Well, that wasn't on the search warrant, you have to disregard the weapons, maybe not the weapons, maybe that's not a great example. But they're tailored to look for a specific thing. Do you think that we could get law enforcement to we get legislation to say that a search warrant only allows you to look for these kinds of things on your phone? And you have to ignore exclude whatever else you may find not just an open door? Well, the search warrant would have been what would have been focused on what it is that what they were looking for. It wouldn't have said just to go on a fishing expedition for the they would have said that, that there was an accident resulted in injury or death. I forget what it was, but but they were looking they would have been looking for something relevant to that. I mean, that they wouldn't have just had a fishing warrant. They wouldn't have said just go fishing wherever you were, you can talk but I think she was involved in and there was a elegant Drugs, yes, and that she might have been under the influence and they were looking for evidence to support that. And she wasn't as being asked to testify against herself. They were just looking like they would they would do in a routine search. It's just that we have evolved now to where there are other places to search other than to the person's home or their person. I guess the phone would be considered an effect. So the award was issued to search the phone she would not cooperate with a search How is that different than if the workstation to search your house and you open fire and try to prevent the search that's essentially what she was doing by refusing to type in the the password. Andy 56:40 I do agree with a lawful search warrant that you and if you don't, then you get held in contempt. Go back to the safe conversation because I don't think your house I don't think that's necessarily a fair analog. The Safe is at least better, but they would eventually be able to bust into the safe, physically get a locksmith to reset the code so they can get in the would have a much easier time getting in there. When you fire up all of the encryption and all that I I'm inclined to under, you know, short of the NSA and those kinds of organizations, your local law enforcement people are not going to have access to your device. Larry 57:14 Well, but again, she was obstructing. Yeah. And on page six of the paper that says the fact that subpoena documents themselves may contain incriminating information is irrelevant to the fifth amendment, because they were created voluntarily, not under compulsion. She was creating all the evidence that was in this phone voluntarily not under compulsion. Correct and I get to discuss this. So but the foregone conclusion that's something I have to do some more study on because on page eight it says if the existence location and authenticity of documents it's a foregone conclusion, then compelling a person to assemble those documents for production does not reveal the person's mental processes and therefore is not sufficiently testimonial to trigger the Fifth Amendment. However, if the government has minimal information about what documents is exist, or what? They contain the act of locating and selecting the documents to produce by require the subpoena recipient to use her own mental processes in a way that renders the resulting response testimonial. So what that saying is that they weren't asking her to give any testimony. They were going to draw their own conclusions. They weren't they weren't engaging in a question session with her. They just said type in the word the whatever the code it is, so that we can see on this phone at so so the court found that that was not testimonial. And it was it was a valid search warrant, and she was not cooperating. So she lost. Yes. Andy 58:35 There's a poll on the screen in the article that says should police be able to force you to punch in your phone pass code? And yes, for Law and Order 12%. No, privacy wins 87.9% of the people in Oregon. My question to you, Larry, is to me, Oregon feels to be a little bit of a different kind of state, just their their culture. There seems to be more about some privacy and liberty kind of things. do you how do you think that that would play out? In the general population? You think it would it would rate the same? Larry 59:10 I think it would probably be very similar, maybe not 87%. But I think as we saw the Supreme Court when they rolled about the the phone leading a search warrant, I think that people are going to somehow equate the phone to a heightened level of privacy expectation, and they're going to be very protective of their phone because of what's on it. So if the if 87% is really accurate, if that's a reliable poll, then the people in Oregon need to express that through their legislative process and tell the law enforcement apparatus that, that that you want this to happen. And you can pass the law, as Scalia says, if you want to enlarge the rights you have, you don't need the people in the robes to give you the protections. You can do it through the processes 87% of you want additional protections for the phone, express through the like the process and you'll get that Andy 1:00:00 I mean, that's not that's not like some sort of 55%, which is a pretty good majority, but not 90% 88%. Is this is that is an incredibly strong majority. I would like to hear what the law and order people the 12% I would like to hear what their arguments are to say that. I mean, like, you just want everyone to run around with their phone unlocked all the time. That includes corporate secrets. That includes I can't imagine why you would just think that yes, you should just open up your phone to everybody. Larry 1:00:29 Well, I don't think that that was the question here. The question was, Why do you open your phone up after after I had been ordered by the court as it was, as that was subject to a to a search issued a warrant that was issued through a directive of the court to that search take place. Again, if a judge issues on order that your dwelling be searched, you cannot stand in the way of that you'll be hauled off to jail. Andy 1:00:50 And and you know, and as a Waco, Texas thing would ensue. They would eventually bring in the larger and larger hardware to gain access to your dwelling at some point. Larry 1:00:57 Yes, you the search the search you You could the process would be, of course, I can understand if I thought I was protecting myself, I can understand her reasoning. But the process would be as you cooperate with search, and then you you take that up on appeal, and you move to suppress the product of the search. And she could have made the same arguments without ever sitting in jail. But But she didn't. She didn't choose that route. But anyway, that she's lost. And if the people who are going to feel that strong and they need to change the law, you don't want the judges who were not elected and most instances making the law Do you that's an evolving, got that you don't want that evolving standards of decency. You don't want people who who are not accountable, deciding and some kind of secret club what the law should be and how to evolve the law. You don't want that there's a process for making law isn't there? Andy 1:01:47 I believe that there is, I believe, I believe I believe Time is running out for you to submit your congratulatory message for us achieving reaching Episode 100 there like I said, the There's a handful of slots left. I would love to have a whole bunch pour in so that I can fill up the show with all these congratulatory messages. You can record a voice memo on your phone and then you can email that to registry matters cast at gmail. com. Or if you want to do it old school, you could bone into 7472 to 74477 and record a voicemail message. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it and I'll talk to you soon. Ready to be a part of registry matters. Get links at registry matters dot CEO. If you need to be all discreet about it, contact them by email registry matters cast at gmail. com. You can call or text a ransom message to 7472 to 744771. To support registry matters on a monthly basis. Head to Patreon com slash registry matters. Not ready to become a patron, give a five star review at Apple podcasts for Stitcher, or tell your buddies that your treatment glass about the podcast. We want to send out a big heartfelt support for those on the registry. Keep fighting. Without you, we can't succeed. You make it possible. We should move on then to this next article, which is sort of like Happy, Happy feel good one. It's opb.org, which I don't know what OPB stands for. But Tara Simmons looks to become the first former inmate elected to Washington legislature. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't happen in Georgia. Or, you know, we could come up with another state. I think Kentucky is one where one of our people is trying to become a lawyer and he has been prevented this far. As far as I know. This is kind of a kind of neat news, Larry, for someone that's formerly incarcerated a convicted felon to she she got promoted up to the bar. She passed the bar exam and now she's running for legislative position as I believe Larry 1:04:00 She has the backing of the current holder of the seat who's retiring. Andy 1:04:03 That's kind of neat also is currently Larry 1:04:06 my representative Sherry Appleton, an eight term democrat who recently now she will retire. I can tell you what happened here because you're never allowed to hold public office after you have that conviction. So we don't have that option here. Andy 1:04:20 Period, end of story. So you're a felon, you can never hold elected office. Larry 1:04:24 That is correct. Now, you could hold a federal office, but you couldn't hold a state office here. Andy 1:04:29 Can you share with me your opinion in both directions of why you would or wouldn't allow someone Larry 1:04:36 it's hard for me to get into the minds of people who who believe that you should never allow a person to hold. I think there should be a rehabilitation process for for for anyone who's out in the community. We're assuming that if they get turned out into the community, they've paid their debt. We can also assume that's been turned out into community. And they have a track record of being successful that they probably have changed unless they fit so slick today. invaded, criminality detection of their criminality. So we can assume that they're full participating citizen. I can't think of any justifiable reason. I think it goes back to the paranoia that they have about letting felons vote because they're going to tip the scales. I think that it's a it's an unjustified fear of something bad that what happened would be that these people are going to be pro felon and they're going to be they're going to be for chaos. I don't understand. You'd have to ask a person who has the fear I don't have that fear. And I don't I don't think there's any rational justification for it. It's just like the Second Amendment your right to why would you be but why is Martha Stewart not allowed to protect herself because she could Andy 1:05:39 be she could be a dangerous like Rambo wielding em 60 carrion MF running around moving up the town. I mean, that's how Martha's when you see her eyes on when she's making those cooking pots and pans. She looks kind of devious. Larry 1:05:53 So So my question is on. Yeah, we have the Second Amendment. So if you've ever made a mistake in your life, So many things rise to 11th level of felony. If we truly believe that weapons provide a level of safety and protection, why is it that we disenfranchise 20 25% of population, they are not allowed to protect and defend their families. Andy 1:06:15 There was a one of the people at the at the at the hearing on Thursday, he's off, all of the supervision is like, and you're putting the sign in my yard, and I have no ability to defend me or my family or my property. Larry 1:06:28 That's the point I'm making. So I don't understand this mindset that i think i think rehabilitation is evident after a period of time. And I think that people want to be fully participate in serving on juries, serving and public office. And I just don't, I don't understand this, that they have to be punished for the rest of their life. Andy 1:06:48 If I can throw something out there, and I'm going to get all kinds of hate mail. So let's just hypothetically say that the representative I think it's in Minnesota, the one that wears the head job. Let's just say hypothetically That she tried to get it she got it office. And let's say she was pushing for some super radical, like, Muslim terrorists kinds of laws, they would never make it very far. You know, so how, like, if you then elected a very, very large minority of people that had felony convictions, and they tried to say, Hey, we want chaos, and we want to just watch the city burn, the rest of the legislature wouldn't vote for it, it wouldn't get past. So what's the risk Larry 1:07:28 of you do have some people who are on the extreme side of the political spectrum on both sides of the spectrum, who get an office, they're usually they're usually outliers that may they they sell them succeed in passing anything. Because their agenda still outside. so far. It's like you have to have our system is set up to where it requires a lot to pass legislation. And unless it's unless it's distorted by massive public opinion, the process is filled with checks and balances. That's the way it was intended. It's supposed to be hard to pass. Was it that was designed that way? Andy 1:08:03 Yeah. Right. Yeah, they're supposed to be all the controversy there's the debate all the opportunities for the public to push back which most of us don't take any sort of interest in. Interesting. Anyway, so here this woman hopefully so she is going you know, she's at least on the ticket and well supported and all that hopefully she'll win and that maybe she'll be a shining star in the Washington and be an example for other people to push back. Larry 1:08:30 I'm imagine that OPB is probably Oregon Public Broadcasting I'm guessing you're a smart but it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, but you know, that left coast, there's a bunch of wacko nut jobs out there, really, I mean, they're the ones driving the country over the cliff, they got minimum wage go into the stratosphere and people can't find housing even they've jacked the wages up to $15 an hour and they have homeless Sysco lower in these places. assisted suicide, it is just it's just a cesspool. That whole part of the country and it will focus on being very facetious, because that's what that's what the right wingers say. They say that you know that you know you can't went because like these places were having enormous prosperity despite the fact that wages are hard the rest of the country in which is supposed to destroy the economy. And then the fact that they have a booming economy based lots of lots of jobs and and shortage of labor and shortage of housing, because the value of the housing stock is going up through the roof Seattle, you can't afford to get a broom closet up there these days. But but they they say that all this stuff is bad, but I thought prosperity was good. You know, I use can't win. You know, you have prosperity in a booming economy and creating the California leading the nation and job creation for a number of years now, but but you know, you can't win. Andy 1:09:48 I understand, Larry. Let's move over to Fox eight and Cleveland sex offender safety tips ahead of Trick or treat. I only want to cover this article because Because of the tennis or so bullet points that they make, I think maybe one or two of them are specifically apply to trick or treating, the rest of them would just be. These are probably at least decent ideas to get your kid to know how to dial 911 teach them to say no. Anyway, I just I just think that this is a whole bunch of hyperbole and exaggeration of an imaginary Boogeyman. And anyway, that's really all I wanted to do. Larry 1:10:30 Yeah, well, it it's the safety tips are generally good rules, for the most part, except for the imaginary ones. For the threats that don't exist, but it's like I was listening to auto talk show day was on the treadmill. And they were talking about according to journal, their medical American Medical Association, the the the the death rate for children the accident rate, I think this injury rate goes up tenfold on Halloween. Guess why not? Because of Lot of sex offenders, cause offline vehicles didn't Andy 1:11:03 tag by a car running down the road 10 or 20 miles over the speed limit was someone's coming back from a Halloween party or on their way to and they've already started drinking. Larry 1:11:11 Oh, Sheriff long if you actually wanted to keep your citizens and butts county safe, you'd be out there on the streets, keeping them trick or treaters safe. That's what you'd be doing. But you're pontificating, while Andy 1:11:24 higher office. That's what you're doing. While I was sitting there listening, I was like, you know, with the number of people you know, on on November 1, you're going to see articles about three kids mow down here, a couple of mow down there in these different cities. Why don't all the cops just post their cars on the corners of traffic areas, turn on the lights and you just stand out there and shake hands kiss babies do all the politicking that you want just to get people to stay aware and slow the F down on this night. Don't bother with our people, because this is just ridiculous. Slow the cars down and then you won't have any sort of incidents overnight. Larry 1:11:59 But if we did that You understand? If the sex offenders node we were watching on it if they know Unknown Speaker 1:12:04 that you see node what they know they Larry 1:12:14 love it, love it love it if they if they if they know they wouldn't anybody buddy watching them they would have a field day it'd be a paradise for that for them. We have to be the reason why doesn't happens it's because we're out there a margin. I don't know why you liberals can understand that. Andy 1:12:30 Can we move over to this reason article that sort of goes along the same lines. It's a Florida cops went to absurd lengths to entrap man who showed no interest in underage sex. reading this article. They tried and tried and tried and tried. And this guy turns out to be a county employee. Maybe he even worked for the sheriff's office. I know he was an county employee. And he found someone on Tinder, who was 18 years old. And he's like, Hey, I'm bored at work. And I just want to chat turns out to be law enforcement. And so he's chatting with the 18 year old And I'm I'm doing air quotes here, like anybody can see me. And that it's like, oh, hey, by the way, I'm 14. And he's like, cool. Maybe we shouldn't talk so much. And they kept pushing, and then they started sending sexy images. And he's just like, Hey, you know, keep it cool. Take your time, no rush or anything. And like, they forced him into. This would be the definition of entrapment, wouldn't it, Larry? Larry 1:13:26 Well, he was arrested, but they they the part that I found appalling was that they did the bait and switch. And they didn't bite for that. There. They started talking about sex say that the 14 year old predicted 14, say that she wanted to experience sex. And he was actually doing the right thing saying no, you don't need to rush that you're plenty of time. And they just they just couldn't leave it alone. The thing is, you need Sarasota. We talked about this before. This is just an extension of a previous we talked about a couple of episodes back in this article thanks by Lenore right? Andy 1:14:03 Is this by Lenore? I didn't catch up it was Oh yes, it is totally missing. Larry 1:14:07 Yeah the this is this is this is her pontificating from recently free range kids all right what her website is not Unknown Speaker 1:14:14 it is now called let grow, let grow Okay, Larry 1:14:17 well what this is the door say the same kind of stuff that I say is that except us a little more boldly don't know where you're going to stop it is you're going to have to curtail the law enforcement resources. The reason why they can do this is because you give them the the personnel starts a manpower that's not politically correct, but you give them the personnel and if you take the personnel away, they'll stop doing it Andy 1:14:38 seems pretty simple. I'm pretty sure that's going to be a lot more complicated than just that to get there. Larry 1:14:43 Oh, it's gonna be a lot more complicated because they come in and cry the skys falling even though crime is down by 50%, which will say at one of our articles that we're going to cover that they take they convince you that they need more and more resources and the public just blindly falls into line and says yes Do I support police whatever the public site, any date the police gap, Andy 1:15:06 we should and then they turn around and they use that to then justify their existence for the next year. And then they gotta they gotta get the budget increase next year, even though they probably should had a budget decrease from year over year. If that's what if this is what they're using the resources to do? Larry 1:15:21 That is correct, but that'll never happen. Andy 1:15:24 Good read Lenore. Thank you. Did you watch the video this next one from the Washington Post? I did not it's a it's they blurred it for redaction purposes. And this is Phoenix fires officer who pulled a gun on parents after their four year old took a doll from the dollar store. Unknown Speaker 1:15:42 watching the video that's the problem. I knew that was coming. Andy 1:15:45 I totally knew that that was coming. What the problem with that I don't see a problem with it. I guess the girl took a baby doll from the Family Dollar Store. And when they went and interrogated the family over, they ended up like Being kind of violent with the family as they were doing their pat down and stuff, they pin the the father up against the car and you know, tell him to spread his legs. And you know you can never Spread your legs far enough right Larry? I don't know if you've ever been involved in this if you've had this happen to me. Yes, yes. Right. So then they kick the inside of his leg so hard that he actually like buckles and then of course now you're not standing up so now you're a threat so then they have to like jack you up in the air. And meanwhile the kids are screaming and all this is over over stealing a doll from the local dollar store. Larry 1:16:31 I don't know why you liberal stars, Dennis. All he needed to do. All he needed to do is comply with the police whatever they tell you regardless of how many times you've been through this before. You need to just do whatever they tell you and have a discussion okay, right. Andy 1:16:50 Yeah, no, no doubt the officer tried to rip Harper's youngest child from our arms. The claim stated eventually he threw Harper who had handed the children to a by standard into the police car face first And then handcuffed her. Then the cop says I could have shot you in front of your effing kids. This is over a $2 stuffed animal from the dollar store. All right. It's it's for non compliance with police commands. You're supposed to do what the police tell you. I don't know why you don't understand that. I'm pretty sure that's actually like, that's false, isn't it? You don't have to it's not you don't like maybe you should? Maybe it's wise to but I don't know that you have to comply with all of their orders, do you? Larry 1:17:30 We have a crime called failure to obey an officer. We have one so yes, you're supposed to do whatever they Andy 1:17:34 tell at all times. any situation day and night out. Larry 1:17:39 Yep. They would. They would probably still, Andy 1:17:41 he says do the hokey pokey dance and you have to do the hokey pokey dance. Larry 1:17:45 That's right, and you won't have any problem. You guys break this all yourself by being disobedient. It shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter. If you've been pulled over 50 times and ask why you're in a particular neighborhood why you're doing this. Can you You open the truck, it should matter you do it to 51st, the 52nd the 53rd and you don't you always cooperate with the police and you won't have these issues. Interesting, Andy 1:18:12 huh? Larry 1:18:14 I still didn't watch it. What? I didn't watch the video. So I don't know what the video shows, um, Andy 1:18:19 I, frankly, you know, to be to be completely transparent and watching it I didn't see some of the things that they're describing in the article. I did see where they kick the guy's leg. And I you know, I don't I you know, sometimes cops get overzealous or they're they're juiced up on some adrenaline because the situation is so intense or whatever. It didn't look like that kind of situation. It looked very kind of low key and he's like, Hey, what are you arresting me for? And they're like, you're not complying get on the gratitude, whatever. And so they seems like they escalate it. To me, it seemed like it. Well, even if you haven't done anything wrong, even if you're 70 years old, you should get off the ground. Maybe it's hard Well, when there was another thing in the story, they were telling the mom to put the kid on the ground or something like that. And like the ground is hot. It's Phoenix, Arizona. This is, you know, this is several months ago that this actually occurred. This was June 12. Can you imagine how hot the pavement was on June 12? And in Phoenix, Arizona? Larry 1:19:17 Well, that it's still is disobedience. You should just do what the officer tells you. I Andy 1:19:23 don't like you there. All right, we're going to move on. Larry 1:19:26 I don't, I don't Well, it's that simple. People bring these break these problems on themselves by being disobedient. We've had people in this podcast if you just simply tell the officer what you're doing, even if it's been 35 times, you, you should just simply cooperate. Andy 1:19:43 I think there's truth in there. I just don't know that. It's always true. Larry 1:19:49 So, well, I don't know the whole story here. I don't know what you know, what, what, what went on, and I'm being a bit facetious about it. But that is the attitude of people who've never been Spirit city overzealous conduct by the police. That is their attitude. They can't imagine what they have not experienced. They cannot imagine having to repeatedly open their vehicles because it hasn't happened to them. And they're not aware of that part of society that that segment of society that experiences this and the frustration you would eventually it would build up, you know, but you're, when you're when you're asked to do things that other people are not asked to do something because the way you look how that that builds inside you you get tired of it. But if you've never had it happen to you can't relate to it. I can't relate to it. I never under have to account for where I'm at or why is there? Andy 1:20:36 Of course, it's because you go to bed at like nine o'clock at night. No one else sees you out, you know, after dark practically. Larry 1:20:41 If I were out at a drug infested zone as as a person brought up it is possible that I could be pulled over and ask energy it's three o'clock in the morning and this is a drug activity and of course my reaction would be I'm driving through I need to have a reason to drive through. Unknown Speaker 1:20:55 Doesn't seem like Larry 1:20:56 you go into really is that law enforcement bad or do you really need to work towards Say I have to give you an itinerary of where I'm going and why I'm here. But that only works for a middle aged white guy and a one year old black guy with dreads and telling the cop that see what happens particular if you tell a white cop that Andy 1:21:12 no doubt this is another one that you have you pulled the case for from the Denver Post. It's hundreds of prisoners conceived new trials freedom after Colorado Supreme Court ruled sentences illegal. And I wrote in the notes for this, like I read through the article and I'm like I don't quite understand so please feel free to dumb it down for all of us. Larry 1:21:32 Well, it said important decision from the Colorado Supreme Court and the case of all men versus two people. And it's as simple as I can make it. It's a short, relatively short opinion. 12 pages. The person decided he was befriended by by an elder man and he an exchange for the for for being rented. Decided to steal the guy's mind and his identity. And he was caught and prosecuted. And he was given a sentence of probation and prison. And the the Colorado Supreme Court has determined that you have to pick one or the other. But probation is inconsistent with prison. So the judge trying to lengthen the amount of time that he would have this person under judicial control, gave him a prison sentence. And then he was going to have a period of five years, I believe, of parole by statute. And the judge tacked on another seven or eight years of probation, to write consecutive and the Supreme Court said you can't do that. And this has the potential to to free a lot of people who've got those type of sentences. Some of the jurisdictions like Colorado we're not doing that but several word the larger metro areas we're doing that some people people might be able to find let their citizens because this is the end of the line. This case, there's nowhere else to take this. There's not a federal issue whatsoever. So there's no cert petition on this. The Colorado court has spoken. And can you Andy 1:23:10 is for my for my understanding this, I received a split sentence a 22. Six. Does. Is that what this is? Because that had prison and probation. Larry 1:23:20 Yeah, I was saying that I had to hand this off to Ashley to take a look at that we're going to analyze and see, but I don't know, the Georgia scheme well enough to say if this is the same, same situation, Andy 1:23:30 and I'm only using that is it but is that the situation that they're describing that they found to be unconstitutional? And I'm not saying it's unconstitutional here. I'm just I'm trying to understand it for me that that sounds like the same thing. Larry 1:23:43 Well, except for it. They did it by the accounts there. They gave him a prison set up. So some of the accounts that I gave him a probated sentence on the other accounts because he had multiple accounts. So they stack consecutive sentences so that they would have a prison sentence and a probate probation sentence. I don't know if that's what they did at your in your case. Okay, they specifically sentenced him to prison on several accounts, and they specifically sentenced him to probation. Colorado laws clear that if if a person is put on probation, they can be sent since two more than 90 days at work release as a condition of probation. But probation and prison are for two different purposes that so so for them, the judge was trying to invent a mechanism through the sentencing to have a greater amount of time to to control this person to try to get some of the bands $59,000 or restitution back. And he failed because the court said you don't get to invent your own sentencing scheme. You have to follow the one that the legislature enacted, right? Yes, it says the plain language of the probation statute leads us to conclude that our court may not impose sentences to both imprisonment and probation for multiple offenses of the same case, to start the termination. To start the termination that probation is that appropriate sentence for a defendant necessarily requires the court termination that prison is not appropriate. So they're saying that that's an inconsistent thing to determine that. So the probation statute gives courts guidance and discretion and choosing to grant probation. However, it requires a choice between President probation. The legislature intended to allow courts to choose only one or the other probation is an alternative to prison. And so that that's that's what that's what he argued and he prevailed. Unknown Speaker 1:25:23 Interesting, Larry 1:25:25 it says says allowing a trial court in effect, I've highlighted this. These parts are being to increase the time of post incarceration supervision ignores the fact that the legislature term of the properly time for defendants post incarceration supervision when it crafted mandatory periods of parole. So in other words regards the number of counts in a bolt account case I defend it is only subject to one period of parole and they cannot increase that period of post prison supervision by stacking consecutive year probation. Andy 1:25:53 Hmm. And then from the Ashley side and poking at Georgia. I do you think? I mean, what kind of angle you've read the statute? What kind of angle Do you think there is to compare? Larry 1:26:05 I haven't read the Georgia stuff. I thought, you know, I don't know. I hope so. Okay. So I don't know what how the sentencing scheme works in Georgia, Unknown Speaker 1:26:12 anything else a case that you want to touch on. Larry 1:26:16 That says that there's clear direction that the legislature never intended for the court to have discretion to impose the period of confinement longer than 90 days or up to two years for workplace when also sentencing a defendant to probation. the legislature's use of the term mandatory shell means that intended for the sentence of probation to begin immediately, as the legislature did not intend for court statement on on order granting probation to rank a secular it to us and its own president. So a lot of folks in Colorado may be cut off supervision because their sentences may in fact, be illegal. Andy 1:26:45 That's crazy. And you have to think I've run into so many people that would say, we're they judge me, it's an illegal sentence, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, nothing gets done about it probably possibly isn't an illegal sentence. So here you got a bunch of jokes. Over in Colorado saying that their sentence was illegal and maybe it actually is illegal. Larry 1:27:05 It may very well in fact it is right yeah I mean everybody who fits within this this fact pattern that had a consecutive sentence or probation they may be able to go to the probation officer say buddy but nice knowing you now I'm not advising you to do that of course without legal it well without a legal opinion from from qualified counsel but I'm saying it may be that people can go down and tell their PO but I'm, I'm about done with your time. Andy 1:27:35 Yes, that goes over well, and you say you're kind to the people with the guns and tasers. Righty All right, let's move over to Vice News, which I don't think we've ever done. Vice News before this $2 test identified bird shit as cocaine, forgive me for cussing. Cops keep using it to arrest people. This is all kinds of fun, Larry that, you know, we always talk about the bond situations. This is how you could end up on bond and lose every For something you didn't do, they said they don't crumbs also once tested positive for meth. I really liked donuts. And I certainly wouldn't want my handlers to come here and go, your glazed donut crumbs look like meth and they tested they go, that's math and my probation gets violated for me eating a donut. Larry 1:28:17 Well, that you know, Andy that the peels are pure as the wind driven snow, and they would never do that on a job test. So we're having a conversation that is just so ridiculous, cuz peels are so pure. Andy 1:28:33 I would I would strongly encourage anyone to check out the show notes and find this article from vice and watch the little video where they actually the guy stands up their hand he shakes the sample tube, and he like says I'm collecting air. And he just moves the thing up and down a few times to collect air puts the lid on it puts the substance in it whatever to make the test and it tested positive for something just by using Larry 1:28:54 air. had that experience here lawyers have put these low costs but low budget tests that they use it here by states really crazy about testing everybody, they don't uniquely tailor the drug testing to, to perceived individuals use have a be 50 years old and never have touched the drugs and they're going to drug test you here. So they keep the cost down. And they that we have routinely have people who question the validity of their test because they know what I've advised when we were taking private pay cases, I always advise people, this cost a little bit of money, and not everybody can afford it, but always advise people to do an independent drug test the same day that they get drug tested. So for example, if you have a drug call in hotline numbers, you have to call them for a random analysis. Well, they generally give you a few hours to get there if you if your number comes up. You have to get there before the days over right or before certain period of time passes after your numbers come up. Yeah, sure. Okay, well, you go to your own lab and have your own drug test done. Yes, I did. Right. And you do that before before you go to the person Office calls them, what they would have to do is they would have to put forth the theory that between the time you left your drug test lab that you use drugs on the way to the probation. Andy 1:30:11 Yes. And that sounds legit. That was the panel. Larry 1:30:16 we've, we've actually we've actually can some of their violations that we had a client that was so crispy, was repeated. And he had the financial wherewithal to pay for an independent test every time a week, he related year and a half worth of independent test and then met magically, he failed. And they were getting ready to rest. And he said, I don't think you ought to do that. And they supplies that. He says, What because I took a test on the way in here. They said you did what he said, he said, I took a test all the way down here. And they said, Why'd you do that? He said just in case something like this should happen. He said there was an independent sample of my urine at another lab that was taken right before I got here. And he said so we're going to compare the urine with your urine and see what what the what the independent lab says if you go from Where the rest have been trying to violate me and have all the years of experience he's the first one I've ever seen that they let go. I slept All righty that and they were really irritated that he was running his own independent testing scheme. Andy 1:31:12 Jen and chat says that would make way too much sense but you know those tests I was having some blood work done every couple months and like they would always kick me back for a couple hundred dollar bill. Larry 1:31:23 I a lot less. Andy 1:31:24 Yeah, but less than that. But still, you know, if you've got a fork out of something like 50 bucks, maybe, or 35 to 50 bucks. Yeah. And they're going to call you something every month or every couple months to do this. You know that it's not like an insurmountable amount of money, Jeepers. Larry 1:31:38 However often your number comes up. Well, I guess it would. I proclaim that it's not the solution for everybody because some people don't have the 40 bucks or whatever the test would cost and their area. They may not have proximity to lab if you live out in the boonies and you may not have easy access to a lab. If your professional offices out in the boonies true. But those who live in urban areas, you probably have multiple labs that you could go to to do a test. I do it for employers all the time. Yeah. And you just you just get your lawyer to set set up an account with that lab, where they do supervised, it has to mimic the way the probation office would do it for so the account has to be set up for supervised drug test not where you can go in and tamper with it. And then the lab technician certifies on the drug tests that it was collected in his or her presence depending on the gender and they they you have you have that to show their face when they violate you when they try to Bali. Andy 1:32:38 And then for our final article, this is inquire calm. living in fear probation has meant to keep people out of jail but intense monitoring leaves 10s of thousands across the state at risk of incarceration. Long, long, long article, but highlights a particular individual who once he got put out on public The amount of challenges and struggles with dealing with the the anklet monitor thing bobber and getting jobs. And he even describes in there that he was going to get a job I just on the other side of the state i don't know it wasn't very far this individuals in Philadelphia, but it was in a decent distant county but not a huge distance. And the probation officer was like, no, sorry, we won't, we don't want you to go there. And so here probation is actually restricting this guy from any level of coming up. And, you know, it's a good read, well written, and, but super huge problems with all of this criminal stuff that we have that we have to put up with, Larry 1:33:42 as it has some good statistics in there. And this I think this was the one where I got the article the data about crime dropping at about, Andy 1:33:50 they said it was like 50% since 1980, or something like that. Larry 1:33:54 Yes. And then the number of probation violated the number of people in prison has has the quintupled, huh, yes, repeat your crisis revision. It was all over this article here. So that's what I would encourage people to read it for those who believe that crime has been going up all these years. And, but but more specifically to the point of the article is that probation used to be, if you, if you if you could swing probation for your client predictor when they had a solid case that were considered a win because probation was rehabilitative. The intent was to try to convince the person there's a different way to go through life. But now probation is what I got you moment. So you get the plea. And it's a ticket to prison because the supervision is set up with such rigidity, and so many do's and don'ts. And then with all the tech, high tech monitoring and the cost associated with that, and all the alarm bells that go off that require you to go outside and push buttons and stay in touch with the with a cloud that you end up with violations that didn't exist 10 years ago. 15 years ago, the violations didn't exist because the technology wasn't there. So we have more and more people being violated for tech problems that you know, you're in your high tech world about how great technology is a lot of the violations are due to tech failures. Andy 1:35:15 Yes, absolutely. And so yeah, so definitely give this article look and they even also profile Larry Krasner about midway through about reducing the number of people that get locked up for these incredibly low level offenses and even moving on up the ladder from there. As you said, the crime rate has come down yet the number of people are locked up are so much greater. So we're justifying the existence of law enforcement and prisons speak even though in spite of the fact that crime has gone down, so we've just made things more illegal. Larry 1:35:54 Well, Andy, I don't blame those statistics for a minute. All that is just popping Cock. The crabs everybody knows crime is through the roof. Everybody knows that. Andy 1:36:05 I don't know. I don't know, like, Dude, that dude's head started spinning when you said the conference. I don't think that that's I don't think that's reality, though. But that's what's portrayed on certain media outlets. I'm not sure. The ones that I follow don't do that. I can sort of think of one of them that sort of portrays the whole world is burning down if you pay attention to it long enough. Larry 1:36:26 Oh, well, early the article that says, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 69%, which is roughly two thirds of those completing probation did so successfully in 1990, compared with just half in 2016, and it says Pennsylvania counties have largely mirrored the national trend over mounting violations Philadelphia used 80% more issued 80% more probation more than 2017 that it did 15 years earlier. And so that that tells you what's happening, technical violations can run the gamut of of of so many Things certainly counts have published effort effort. probation has become technology has made probation, a lot more complicated to comply with. Andy 1:37:10 Yes, without a doubt, have all the different devices and apparatus to to watch you. I know you've heard about the thing in Georgia where they're going to they've given you an app to install on your phone, and they send you a link and you do like a live stream video conference with your handler. I'm Larry 1:37:27 kind of weird I've heard of I'm kind of weirded out by this one. So yes, well, I like this one condition A judge add to her 12 year sentence talking about one these faithful, not dying, quote, not hanging around with bad people. Andy 1:37:40 Yes. Gotta watch out for the baddies. They also covered in the article there they were talking about the number of people that are on supervision of some kind, and you know, don't hang out with those people, but you could be working side by side with them and with so many people on supervision or that have had felonies. You could just be hanging out at a coffee shop having lunch with somebody that You met at work and they could also be a felon. And what are you supposed to do? Go say? Hi, would you like to be friends? I'm sorry. Are you a felon? Oh, sorry, we can't be friends. Larry 1:38:10 Well, that sounds reasonable to me, I know that you should probably take their friends and run them back fingerprint and have them check for a background pay for the FBI record. But that's silly that the association is intended to be the case just one of our supporters and, and the state here. He hired someone to work for him. And they, the apparatus told him that he couldn't do it. They couldn't they couldn't work with each other. And the young the youngster had enough resources he took it to the judge that sentence determined to get a judicial override so that he could work there because that's kind of the whole point of probation was trying to have people with jobs and to rebuild their lives and I told the employer I said they're gonna they're gonna be gunning for both of you now said you've both irritated them because you've got a judge to to do something. They're not gonna like that. Yeah, Andy 1:39:01 Larry, that's all I got. What else do you got? Larry 1:39:03 Oh, I think we should probably in view of the technical glitches, we should probably try to wrap it up. Andy 1:39:08 Yes. Without a doubt. Hey, before we go, though, where I want to make an announcement like, you know, next week is kind of a significant milestone. If you are listening to this podcast, maybe there are special events that are going to occur next week. Wink wink, nudge nudge. That's a secret. Don't tell Larry. There we can go on now. Larry 1:39:27 We do want to promote the Halloween event. It's going to be happening on Thursday night or everyone who's listening to this podcast should join and how do they How do they join in that marathon? Yeah, Andy 1:39:37 definitely go to nurse all and find the publication but you could stream it on YouTube which would be youtube.com slash nurse all that'll get you close enough there to find it. And then there's obviously a phone number that you can call in. And that's going to be Wednesday night starting at like noon or some crazy number like that and running till midnight. what's what's the time frame. I thought Halloween was Thursday. Thanks. I know it's Thursday. I'm sorry, I misspoke. So it's Thursday, my bad Thursday. And it starts at what time Larry 1:40:06 we're going to start at five Eastern. And we're going to be doing a cop watch hotline, where we're intended to watch the cops. And we're wanting real lifetime in time reports is closest to possible to when they're trying to barge in your home, or when you when you have to go turn yourself and for those who have to go sit in a particular location, we want you to call it and tell us they're taking my phone away from me, whatever there was going on so we're trying to be geared up for real live reports that are put on the air immediately. And hopefully there are no tech glitches. We think we've got that we think we've got that test of Brenda not tested that a couple of us tested that the other night okay. Seems like it's gonna work. But but we're, we're wanting to and we have a group of attorneys are going to be standing by to give advice related to whatever is happening, and we're going to be taking names and phone numbers and jurisdiction information to possibly follow up depending on what's really over the top for possible legal action, the cops need to be on notice that your day of having unfettered access to do whatever you want to those days are ending. There are people organizing to come after you and you're going to have to follow the law. And you can't invent and make the law and you can't exceed the law. And so that's what marshals trying to do along with cooperation excellence going to be with us on this one for for the for this event to try to broaden the audience and also the scope of of legal expertise we have on the call. Andy 1:41:40 All right. Excellent. that runs from like five to 11, I think is the time. Larry 1:41:44 It's going to be a six hour total and nobody's going to listen to the entire six hours. We understand that for me like a long, long show, but it right now it looks like we made divided up between the East and West and excellent they may have it for three hours and we may have had we're still we're still working out The details of how we're going to bide the time but, but it'll it'll be fun and I know that the the promotional spots are flooding in I think you've got like 26 of them already, right? Absolutely. And so we'll have some prize contest. It'll be it'll be fine. Everybody should join us that are that listen to the podcast. Andy 1:42:19 Awesome. Sounds great. Larry, let's run through this real quick registry matters.co 7472 to 74477. And email registry matters cast at gmail. com and of course our favorite way or best way our patrons our favorite special people. registry man, excuse me. patreon.com slash registry matters. And that's all I got. Larry 1:42:40 Thanks for having me. Andy 1:42:42 I will try to have you again if you will clear your schedule next week and we will do it next week. Have a great night, Larry. Transcribed by https://otter.ai