Andy  0:00  
registry matters is an independent production. The opinions and ideas here are that of the hosts and do not reflect the opinions of any other organization. If you have a problem with these thoughts FYP recording live from FYP Studios, east and west, transmitted across the internet. This is Episode 101 of registry matters. Larry, this is like a rebirth. This is Episode One, you know hundred plus one. So this episode one of a new era of registering matters podcast.

Larry  0:27  
Well, fantastic. Do you think we can do another hundred or anything out of it? I'm sure

Andy  0:31  
we can. I don't know if anybody's gonna listen to it. But we could do it.

Larry  0:36  
So we could do it. Even if there's not anyone listening.

Andy  0:39  
We could be like neil bortz, and we could say something like, hey, if you don't want to listen, we can shut you down from from our end. I could put in all kinds of MAC address filters and I could shut people down. That's to throw some tech words out there for people that don't know them.

Larry  0:53  
Well, now, when he said will disconnect your radio from this year and that was in the 60s and 70s Now you actually could disconnect a person from this and couldn't you?

Andy  1:04  
I could do a certain degree. I could shut them down from there one place where they're coming from if they then moved, I couldn't, you know, I couldn't I would be whack a mole. I can keep doing it, but it wouldn't be whack a mole.

Larry  1:15  
Well, I think when Neil was saying he was just letting people know that they certainly had a choice and they're listening.

Andy  1:21  
I hear you. Ryan said he'll be sad if the podcast dies while he's in lockup. He's he's about to go off to his about probably do about a four year vacation.

Larry  1:31  
Yeah, and I want to I want to spend some time with Ryan before he goes and make sure we stay connected at least through the newsletter or something. Yeah, so before before he goes to the, to the to the chain gang.

Andy  1:43  
Yeah, man. He's a good dude.

Unknown Speaker  1:46  
He said for your Poop, poop vacation. I've never heard poop nation before.

Larry  1:52  
Well, that's funny. For Florida presidents are not known for being big, very accommodating. majority of them are not air conditioned. And it's a pretty, pretty warm climate when you I've heard it when you get to Florida you're talking about very subtropical.

Unknown Speaker  2:11  
Yeah. And Charles says that he's going to supply them with transcripts and also the normal conference folder

Unknown Speaker  2:17  
that's cool if they'll let those things into

Larry  2:20  
so well I hope they do and we do have a newsletter in our so we'll make sure that he gets on the list for that. I'll take care of that. But the problem is initially when it goes through the intake we won't know where he's going to be so he'll tell us where where he's gonna where he ends up landing.

Andy  2:34  
Yeah, it could be three ish or so months before everybody figures out where he is in mail starts getting routed to that place it could it could be a decent chunk of time, you know, such as going to be like a your mail gets forward and it's there two or three days later.

Larry  2:49  
Well, the diagnostic and intake general they can receive mail but how long? how quickly they pump them through varies from state to state and and he could he could be there for many weeks or it could be their first Short very short period time just because of how quickly they do their do their work up in Jackson people stay there sometimes for for many weeks before they get shipped out. One final thing I wish Jackson's and Jackson's in Georgia for those who don't, right? Yes.

Andy  3:16  
And I just wish you the best of success man and I hope everything is calm and cooling. You know, everything just goes smoothly as as well as it can be.

Larry  3:26  
Me as well. I hope I hope that that I mean, it's never fear prisons are dangerous, inherently dangerous places. Anybody

Andy  3:34  
even for like a young Spry lad, not for someone that has, you know, any sort of medical ailments.

Larry  3:39  
Anybody who minimises prison. You don't want to when people say well, what difference does the day make? Well, I think I said podcast before. The difference a day makes us just look at the calendar 1980 if you were in prison, and we only had one prison in our state in 1980, and if you We're in the penitentiary of New Mexico and they were 28 1980. And that was your discharge date. You walked away without any without any scrapes. If you were penitentiary, New Mexico in February 29, one day later, that was a leap year, if you were in prison on February 29, so we had the most violent uprising and us prison history where 33 inmates viciously slaughtered, and others injured. And that day made all the difference. So So prisons are volatile places and a day could be the difference between some significant harm and not.

Andy  4:33  
And I'm sure Ryan is really happy to hear that story.

Larry  4:36  
I don't I'm not trying to make people happy. I'm trying to let people know that a day makes a difference when they say what do you fussing about you know, you've done 11 years and you're fussing about a day to day that you do that you shouldn't do could be the day that makes a significant difference.

Unknown Speaker  4:49  
Very true.

Andy  4:51  
Well, we did receive a an incredibly very generous, very generous contribution from Mr. Anonymous. I won't go into the amount but it is going to Set registry matters onto a path of financial solvency for years to come. Thank you Mr. Anonymous very much.

Unknown Speaker  5:07  
But wasn't it wasn't a 38,000 it was a large significant sum of money.

Larry  5:13  
Thank you Bye big said a tad bit. Maybe

Andy  5:17  
Maybe it's maybe a 10. And then I was having a conversation with someone on our Discord server, and he happens to be in Louisiana and he was just about to head off shore. And he gave me a link to an article that'll be in the show notes. But this is what he said. He said, just a reminder that in Louisiana, it's practically a crime to be registered and poor. Community no notification is paid for by the register. Mine just cost me 193 bucks for a newspaper ad and $500 for postcards plus $82 for an ID card and a driver's license good for just one year can't pay. That's a felony failure to notify minimum two years up to 10. That's insane. Larry, those are like annual fees that you have to pay of Whatever like 1000 bucks almost?

Larry  6:02  
Well, no, the part of our annual fees is the notices when you move into the, to the dwelling. So theoretically, here's, here's where I, I mean, I'm not for it, I'm against it and I'll tell a story about what we're trying to do about it with with ourselves, but it's, it's it's a fee that's assessed for community vacation when you move into the community. And now if you do basic math, and you look at an urban area, it's within a zone and I forget the radius of your residence that everyone has to be notified. So if you live out in the boonies, there will be fewer notification flyers are required if you're living in New Orleans, you've got to have a whole lot more dense population. So everybody has to be notified. And and the there's there's not an instantaneous incarceration for not paying that money that the notices still go out my understanding. But then, if if if the person does not pay within some period of time Then it is it is it is a violation. Now, I may have that wrong because I was working with you know our friend King Alexander from Kalka shoe parish. He he said Kalka parish in Louisiana. he's a he's a supervising felon and without life parole attorney, he, he described it to me. And I did not actually look at the statute with great detail, but then if the notices are being withheld until the person pays, then that's that's a whole different can of worms, but I thought I understood that it notices still go out but that the person has to pay for them.

Andy  7:38  
Okay. He is in a pretty populated area. I know like exactly where he lives. I used to live in New Orleans and I know exactly where he lives. It's pretty densely populated area on the West Bank in New Orleans.

Larry  7:47  
So nonetheless, it is it is probably unconstitutional. But what have we said for the last hundred episodes on this on this podcast about things?

Unknown Speaker  7:57  
They can do it until they're told to stop

Larry  8:00  
And hotels have to stop.

Andy  8:02  
We have to litigate somehow or tell the legislators to stop. That's I think those are a lot of avenues we have to sue them to make the legislation change is

Larry  8:10  
either the court say it's not enforceable, or it has to be changed by legislative action. Yep.

Andy  8:16  
And Paul dueling said litigate legislate and I guess he had educated there and is educated. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  8:22  
yeah. Yeah.

Larry  8:23  
Yeah, of course, that's that's that we've had that for a decade or more before he came. Okay. That's the that's the three prongs of what of what we're trying to do. But but here's here's the problem. We were actually in negotiations with a law firm and Louisiana private attorney to litigate this very issue. And we were very close, I thought to have an agreement with them until they turned Renegade and I won't name any names so therefore, so they won't be able to say anything, but it was a big libelous, but we were very close to come into an agreement about litigating that very same claim that That the distance debtors prison so to speak. Right. And there's to be a supreme court press about Georgia that that would be a beard and claim. We were. We were close, but they they decided that that in exchange for our money that we could have no say so about the case, we would not be involved with the strategy. They did not want to reimburse us that they would prevail. I mean, there were everything that we that we they would expect that in a in a in a in an agreement with a law firm they objected to. And I said, Well, let me just make sure I have this straight what you bought, as for us just simply to be moneybags, we would be able to give you money. We have nothing to say about the strategy. We get nothing to do input into settlement if there is one, and it's entirely under your command. And we just simply pay the bill and they wanted it to be an unlimited bill where we should put a cap on legal fees because legal fees can run it assesses six figures. So you Want us to agree to just constantly pay you? Regardless of how long this litigation stretches? I said we would have a line of attorneys from here to Baton Rouge if we could agree to that. And I'll set the course I mean, we would have we would have people lined up from coast to coast that would be willing to do litigation under that arrangement. So we didn't come to an agreement. And then they went ahead and filed it without us. They went ahead valid of civil rights complaint. And they got they got bogged down in federal court, because of the doctrine of not exhausted, so they have exhausted other remedies, and the sense of the core didn't want to deal with it. Last I heard about the cases it was that it was it was held in abeyance until some state remedies were exhausted. And since we were not funding the litigation, I haven't followed it but it's a viable, bona fide complaint. It should be litigated. It probably is unconstitutional, but they're going to keep doing until until they're stopped.

Unknown Speaker  10:57  
Very good. Wow.

Unknown Speaker  10:58  
And when did that occur? When What's up going on?

Larry  11:01  
couple years back.

Andy  11:03  
Gotcha.

Larry  11:04  
So this is this is not this is not new. This is this stuff that's been going on Louisiana, Louisiana for a long time. Louisiana is one of the, you know, that whole bible belt of southern states of forgiveness. That's one of the places where things are really harsh. Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi.

Andy  11:18  
Okay, I wasn't gonna bring this up. But did you hear who's running for his old position and Alabama?

Larry  11:24  
Well, that would be former senator jeff sessions for my attorney general. And I can Yes,

Andy  11:30  
Attorney General and and and is he like pro? Like criminal justice reform? Is he pro like the legalization at least the reduction of the criminal sentences behind marijuana and other drug things? Is he that kind of a

Larry  11:43  
candidate? Absolutely not. He was the one who was the attorney general who gave out the order stuff to seek maximum penalties for everything. I don't mean that it's absolutely not for that.

Andy  11:54  
He does sound like ross perot, don't you think?

Larry  11:57  
There is a similarity but yes, he's a hard nosed loner. Got it.

Andy  12:02  
Alright, let's let's start

Unknown Speaker  12:03  
going into this stuff man before we get too far derailed

Andy  12:06  
this first article comes from law. com I guess it's the Connecticut law Tribune I guess it's like a sub publication their second circuit overturns conviction of man who traveled across state lines for sex with a teen. It seemed to me and reading this, Larry that it was like everyone was lying about their age. The victim was lying about her age the the young man was lying about his age. And so is it did I read it right that the defense side is saying, Well, everybody lied to if it was okay for her to lie about her age shouldn't be okay for my client to lie that his age?

Larry  12:42  
Well, there was nothing in the case that revolved around he wasn't prosecuted for lying. Yeah, I mean, it was. It was it was it was apparent, and that wasn't a defense that was asserted that he lied. This case is is actually relatively complex, and it involves a lot of good juicy stuff. And and so what what happened was the government the this was a federal charge he traveled from, from Rhode Island to Connecticut.

Andy  13:10  
I don't have it backwards. That sounds right. So he traveled up there and New England back and forth, which would be a stone's throw based on how big those states are.

Unknown Speaker  13:18  
So hee hee hee hee

Larry  13:22  
hee hee hee went to have sex and he actually, he did have sex. And, and he, he, he, he was charged with traveling and interstate commerce for the purpose of engaging in a sexual act with a minute or not younger than 12 and not yet at least 16 and at least four years. Here's Jr. Right. he pled guilty. He traveled from Rhode Island to Connecticut for the purpose of having sexual intercourse with a with a young girl he told detects a blade to be 16 years old when she was in fact younger. Well, the problem was the government. They had a statute that fit for it. He did. But they didn't use it because it did not give him enough prison sentence. They didn't so so they could have used section 2423 a, but they wanted 2423 be, and 2423 Be it the criminality is the travel with the intent of having sex with someone over 12 and less than 16. He did not have any intent whatsoever of having sex with anyone under 12 over 12 between 12 and 16. Right. He He initially answered an ad that said that the person was older that they were 19. And then they magically became 16. But 16 is above the age where that statute covers and and the the crime of that he was being charged with was not for having the sex. It was for traveling. across state lines with the intent of having sex was a person who was under 16. But yet over 12 he has no such intent whatsoever.

Andy  15:13  
So there it sounds like Yeah. So so and and also, since he lied about his age, then the age difference was only a three year difference based on both of their lives.

Larry  15:23  
So Well, well, that that was a factor. What the factor the factor here was the government tried to tried to have it both ways, because they wanted the more serious criminal penalty, and they tried to pretend this was a strict liability offense. But it's not because there's an affirmative defense in there that that, that that the his state of mind has his he had, if he if he reasonably if the person is over 16 that this, this subsection doesn't apply. 2423 be doesn't apply. And then they would have they would have had a slam dunk if they had to use 2423 A but it didn't it didn't give enough time. So Mr. Prosecutor, when you want to budge, you end up with nothing. But a lot of things went wrong with this case Other than that, other than that the the attorney did not know, had not done his defense attorney had not done his homework and he didn't understand the statute required that the person would be traveling with the intent of having sex with a person under under 16. He did. He didn't know that he thought just build the fact that they had sex with he had sex with someone the girl turned out to be 14. Yeah, but that was that was that was not relevant for this analysis because that wasn't his intent. He he the crime was the traveling, not the sex. He when he crossed into Connecticut. His state of mind when he crossed that boundary of what he was intending to do, was what mattered not what he actually did. The crime would have been complete if he had never had sex. Because the crime was the interstate travel with the intent to have sex with a person over 12 at less than 16, he had no such intent.

Andy  17:09  
Could you backup remind us what strict liability is?

Larry  17:14  
strict liability is when a person is criminally responsible without any requisite intent required just something that you did. So that's quite common with with we're going to talk about that in a couple minutes about the Connecticut statute itself that he actually was prosecuted under. And that makes this case fascinating because people don't understand that each sovereign has jurisdiction. He was prosecuted in Connecticut for actually having the sex and he's he's a convicted sex offender in Connecticut, because he had the sex but describe was the interstate travel and and there was there was no requisite knowledge. His state of mind was that he intended to have sex with a 16 year old and and and that was That was not enough under this particular statute for the feds to have their jurisdiction. So his conviction was set aside. And not only was it funny about that it was so funny that the prosecutor got it wrong. The defense attorney got it wrong. And the judge got it wrong. The judge did do the property management said let him know what the what the burden of proof was. They did this kind of glossed over the fact that the government would have had to approve them that he was intended to have sex with someone under 16 that they just they just have glossed over and said that he he intended to have sex when he did intend to have sex but not with someone with an f2 specifically prohibited category. He was very much intending on having sex but crossing a state line to have sex is not against the law. People do that all the time. So there's you're crossing the state line to have sex with someone who's who's who is permissible to have sex with desktop. So across the state line did not bring him with his own prosecution. So it's a fascinating read for Those people who enjoy this these nuances of the law, I've highlighted this probably the most highlights I've ever put in my case. Because this is so fascinating. Did

Andy  19:09  
you actually highlight like what the highlighter on the PDF?

Larry  19:13  
Yes, I always do that. Not with a highlighter, but I should actually I should use that. Sorry.

Andy  19:22  
I couldn't resist. But so

Larry  19:25  
but but he got prosecuted under under state law that let's take a look at the state law. It's called sexual assault. Diane, Connecticut, sexual assault. And the second degree is a class Segar be felony. A person is guilty of sexual assault and a second degree one such person engages in sexual intercourse with another person and one such person as 13 years of age or older, but under 16, which that's what this person was, and the actress more than three years older, this such other person, so he would have been convicted, his clique would have been to 53 a dash 71 A subsection one. And this is a strict liability office. Such there was no there was no knowledge required that that a person is guilty of sexual assault in second grade one such person engages in sexual intercourse with another person. And such other person is 13 years of age or older, but under 16. So I'm taking that, that that's probably the age of consent and Connecticut and the actress more than three years over the such other person. So he had a strict liability in Connecticut because he did the dirty deed. And they didn't there was no requirement that he know anything here. Now. He did, though, that she was 16 is according her representation, right. But once once they once they linked up, then he had an opportunity to do an additional evaluation. And the theory goes, and I don't agree with this theory, but theory girls, once you've examined the merchandise, you have additional information to make it as When he got to Connecticut, even though she was saying she was 16, he could have said, I'm having a little duplicity about this. You don't really look. Right don't really look 16. So I don't think we can go through with that that is an option he has available or he can say, Can I say your school ID? Because most people 16 are still in school even though I think it's that's where compulsory attendance drops out in most states as age 60. But, but you you could take some liberties to figure out by asking a few questions, but that just doesn't run through the average person's head when they're in that state of mind. Yeah, who can you think of this done that in your life that said, Well, let me see your ID.

Unknown Speaker  21:42  
I don't think very many people could do that.

Larry  21:45  
Well, this is this is this is a strict liability office that way so in my views, Connecticut sexual assault statute is probably unconstitutional.

Andy  21:54  
Interesting. Yeah. This has a whole bunch of looks and crannies and and twists and turns of of the various different angles to look at this from?

Larry  22:03  
Well, well, the great thing about it is is that, that so many of the circuits have said the same thing about this particular crime. And you would think that US Attorney's offices around the country would have realized by now, when there's all the sister circuits have said that the test requires that you be able to prove that the person intended, because that's that's what the statute says you're intended to have sex with someone between 12 and 16. Now, if you are what, who believes in black letter law, that's pretty straightforward. And then the course the government with with quickly flip if the situation were reversed, if it was an imposter, if it was an officer pretending to be under 16, then they would say, well, it's all right to pretend. But the reality is that that even though that she's a 27 or 34 49 or whatever age, they would say, never buy on what she actually is see they already get his k they are good his case that he should be held liable because her actual age was 14. But they would do a magic flip flop, if it was one of their detectives posing as as as a minor. And if you use that as a defense, you said, Well, you know, he actually showed up on the person was 42 years old that didn't, that didn't matter doesn't matter. So the court called them out on that duplicity in the 37 page opinion, they said you it would it would it would have been amazing to watch what you would have argued the other way.

Andy  23:34  
Okay, so there's that good stuff. Yeah. And you've highlighted good stuff. The legal doc will be in the show notes for those of you that want to read it.

Larry  23:44  
So there's plenty of the yellow and this one.

Andy  23:48  
Let's move over to courthouse news. I think we have a couple other Yeah, we have two other articles from courthouse news. This is ex NFL player Kellan Winslow Jr. pleads guilty to rape and I am very confused. This looks pretty straightforward. And I'm curious as to why you have thrown this in through the show this week.

Larry  24:09  
Just Just for, as far as I'm concerned that this is an example of, of, of, I'm sure that what they tried extra hard because of his status being a former NFL player, there's something really charming about bringing down a person that has standing in the community or has had standing in the community. And they they tried it but the jury deadlocked, so they got a second bite at the apple with a deadlock jury. And each time a person goes to trial, the second and third time if it's allowed, the the the case gets better for the state and worse for the defense because each time the state learns what they didn't do. So so he apparently wins all played for the for Cleveland, Tampa Bay, New England, New York Jets and are more than 40 million in 10 seasons. And I'm sure that taste spent a significant amount of that Money and this and I'm not justifying if he was guilty but guilty because he actually was guilty. But I don't like that when they when they keep trying a person, second, third, fourth time, it's like hey, you're eventually going to get it right.

Unknown Speaker  25:14  
Just like scalar

Larry  25:14  
you're eventually gonna you're going to eventually get what you're looking for. So when I see a second third trial artists I just have a doobie all study about how fair this the second and I predicted the third trial but this was the second trial

Unknown Speaker  25:28  
Uh,

Andy  25:30  
yeah so where does that why doesn't that start crossing the line of anything of double jeopardy?

Larry  25:37  
I wish I could explain that but but since since since I can't explain it I don't know the the fact that you've been on trial you face the consequences but since the trials and complete bye bye bye not a verdict they deem that that's that they'll jump it hasn't really attached but I have

Andy  25:56  
an interesting I mean,

Larry  25:58  
no decisions rendered at rendered at hung hung jury is just there. We can't come we can't come to an agreement

Andy  26:04  
that that almost speaks to that. Neither side could push it far enough. So Aren't you innocent until proven guilty, then since they couldn't push it far enough to get you to be convicted that they should then just go home?

Larry  26:18  
Well, that that's an argument that I'd like to have made. But But when the jury is unable to reach the termination, then the there's there's no Jeopardy as far as the system is concerned. Because you, you never you never had a decision made. You were not you are not determined to be not guilty. You weren't a to be guilty. There was a defective Miss trials don't just happen because the hung jury that happened because of people making comments, I shouldn't make a bake in front of a jury. You can have a mistrial, right admonishment won't be sufficient to cure the contamination. Jurors can can can do things that they're not allowed to do at a jury jury can be dismissed or the second jury dismissed. If you don't have enough alternate she end up not having a full There's a number of things that can cause a Misra but but this this this thing but a hung jury that they got a second bite the apple and he decided to cop a plea. Maybe he was guilty, but it seems like a pretty harsh outcome. And so I guess things are getting pretty tough out there and Cal was that in California? In California?

Andy  27:16  
Yeah, California Vista, California. Okay then, hey, well, here's the deal with another vigilante justice warning. This is WTHR This is a Logan sport Indiana. Police warned against vigilante justice, yet some schmo out there who's created an Instagram account and he has then also created a like a fake teen profile, whatever. And he's out there trolling to get alleged child predators to come visit him. I guess it was wanting to be alleged. He's he's trying to he is getting people to come in and visit him at a rendezvous point. And he is filming it and then turning over the evidence to the police and the police aren't really interested. There's this is a dangerous thing to do. But he's gotten 45 7000 followers in four days,

Unknown Speaker  28:02  
well, maybe we should emulate what he's doing.

Unknown Speaker  28:04  
Why Why would we do that?

Larry  28:08  
What I'm talking about in terms of getting the followers, maybe we should figure out what he does that to get 47 followers in four days? We Yes,

Andy  28:15  
maybe yes, we could do that. I have a feeling that the my handlers would frown upon me doing that.

Larry  28:23  
Well, I don't say we should do that. But whatever magic he's done. I mean, he had to start from scratch, right. He had himself as a follower when he launched his his, his his his endeavor, right? Yes. Okay, whatever he did to get to 47,004 days, that's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about replicating his activity, but whatever magic he had, that that extended his his visibility to 48,000 people that that's what I'd like to replicate. There should be 48,000 people listen to this podcast,

Andy  28:54  
there should be but because, well, so in his case, I mean, the answer to that is he He has done something super controversial but just that people want to then amplify and share and share and share and then it just goes viral so to speak. And I'm speaking to the you the you people in chat, you're not doing that. So that's why we're not viral.

Larry  29:15  
Is that the reason? Yes, the UK so sorry. So let's digress a little bit more. Okay, so he started with just himself. What did he do that allowed himself to explode to 48,000 did he get himself on the news? Did he What did he do that's different than what we've been doing for the last hundred one episodes.

Andy  29:35  
I think Simply put, just like watching a video of someone doing whatever and they wreck themselves you know, like a fail video. And he has created this video where he has been in in trap somebody however you want to word it where he's gotten someone to come out to a location trying to have sex with someone under age, whatever, films it and then he shares it with his 10 hundred original friends. And then then it just explodes and then they actually And amongst their friends and so on it just like that commercial back in the 70s. And they'll tell two friends and so on and so on. And the screen fills up little squares.

Unknown Speaker  30:07  
Do you remember that commercial? Yes. So you draw on the commercial that

Larry  30:14  
that, that you people out there listening need to do that to grow this podcast?

Andy  30:20  
Man. That's what I've been saying the whole time, please share it. But anyway, so yeah, they don't do that. But that's the same thing with Marisol. How many of the, it kind of does fall on deaf ears, Larry, that we know that so many of our people, when they find out about it, they just go Yeah, I'm just going to keep my head below the firing line. And there's there's not really much exposure for someone to share this video because you know, people that are trying to have sex with underage people are generally hated, and there's no social cost for them to do it and share it to their next the next circle of friends that they have, but there is to some degree of social cost of having the people that you know, in your circle that aren't one of our people to share. This project that we're doing with their friends.

Larry  31:03  
I say what you're saying that there's there's not the appeal. The broad appeal that there is to protecting people from child predators. Yes,

Andy  31:12  
that is correct. So yeah, so there's another vigilante out there. And this is I don't know, we've covered this sort of subject to half dozen times in our hundredth episode history. hundred episodes. How about that? That sounds kind of cool, right?

Larry  31:25  
Yeah. And I put it in here just for that reason that that these people don't stop but they, they they feed upon themselves. And we've talked about in Washington, Oregon, up in the northwest corner, and I forgot all the different states where we've mentioned this now this is in the heartland of Indiana. So it's not going to stop it's until until these people are stopped by some forces greater than them they're not going to stop doing this because it works that gets them notoriety,

Andy  31:50  
viewers followers, and they're potentially breaking the law at the same time and you know, so you could miss identify someone you could harm them for someone that has not done anything wrong, necessarily. My one other question to you is, I'm sure the answer is not a no. But does this happen in any other kinds of crimes of any sort? I'm sure I'm sure someone is out there doing vigilante something, but I don't think that I've really ever heard of any sort of vigilante justice going around.

Larry  32:16  
Well, I'm drawing a blank but you couldn't could be but that seems like the, in this area of sort of the vigilantes ever everybody's mad if if you got a sister or a while I've got a sister, I'll kill your ass for for for Wait a minute. Well, let's say she's 16. And he was 19. And that, won't you don't mess with my sister. Correct?

Andy  32:38  
Correct. They're just kids. man can't be messing with the kids. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. And this is a wall street journal article that says most plea bargains are unconstitutional. I am very much inclined to agree with the sentiment that, you know, we don't cover all 27 amendments on any regular basis, but we do cover a handful of them and they're coming kinda sorta a non negotiable thing. With the First Amendment, there's only the negotiation of you can't use certain kinds of words in public places, saying that there's an explosive device somewhere, I'm not going to say the B word. So you don't you have a pretty unrestricted freedom of speech that the government can't shut down. And but when you move off to this kind of stuff, where you have the right to a trial by jury and all that stuff, I'm inclined to kind of agree with the way that this article is presenting things that this this does feel sort of like a constitutional violation.

Larry  33:33  
It always has to me as well. And for those of you who decide to read the article, it's a it's by Alan Dershowitz who's a professor at Harvard Law School, and he's well, well recognized as being being an expert on the Constitution. And sometimes he irritates people because he's questioned some of the things that's going on in the Trump and Peter But professional Professor Dershowitz and I agree on this. to penalize a person for invoking a right just doesn't seem to be. That just doesn't seem the spirit of what the founding fathers would have intended. So you have the right to, to to, to be free of unreasonable search and seizure. So you require that the police obtain a warrant. That would be to me equivalent to the police coming and breaking your house down once they have the warrant, as a penalty for you requiring them to do what the Constitution requires. Since you have the right and the presumption of innocence and you have the right to go to trial. It would seem like that to extract an additional penalty for invoking that right, would be unconstitutional. Not now. That's the world the way it should be. The world the way it is being in America is that you will get a substantially greater sense if you go to trial. The Supreme Court has said that's okay. In fact, I think they even referenced the decision on US Supreme Court 1970 where they said that but but the Supreme Court has repeatedly said that the system depends on plea bargains. And that's just the way things that things are done. When when you hear me pontificate, I pontificate simply because if you just read this article about what happens to people that don't win, they're getting 10 times I cite cases in this article, where people received 10 times as much of a sentence had they taken the plea offer. And so I'm just here to tell you, if you are if you're offered a great play, even though you're not guilty, it may be in your best interest to take that plea because the question is going to be can they convict you not whether you're guilty or not, I'm sorry, the question is whether or not they can convict you. And if they can convict you, they're likely going to respond. received a much harsher sentence than what the plea bargain would offer. Now, there's all the criticism people make. Well, Larry, if that was if everybody would refuse to plead, the whole system would crash. It absolutely would crash if everyone refused to plead. But the only problem is everyone is not going to refuse to plead because it's in their interest to do so. If if you're facing for something where you actually did do it, and you could be sentenced to 18 years and they're offered, you are probated sentence is certainly in your interest to plead guilty. And your defense attorney has a solemn duty to tell you, hey, the evidence is overwhelming. And they're offered your sweetheart deal. Because in my experience with the evidence I have, they're going to secure a conviction on at least two of these three charges. And with these two charges that they're going to probably convict you. You're facing up to 11 years in prison. And they're offering you a guarantee of probation. So that person is not gonna refuse to plead so that they can bring the system down They're just not going to do that. So the reality is, you can have a fantasy about breaking the system down, it's not going to happen. That's not the way we're going to progress the system is by people refusing the plate, they're not going to do that.

Andy  37:11  
Well, if they did flip this over and make it so that effectively everything with the jury trial, they would have to expand the capacity of the system, but at the same time, they would have to turn around and reduce the number of things that are getting prosecuted, kind of going under the guise of like the Larry Krasner model of these minor things shouldn't get prosecuted.

Larry  37:33  
Well, is it really in the interest of justice that everything go to go to jury trial? People who who absolutely did do what was charged and they There is no doubt that they prosecutors overcharged but say that they straight charged it correctly, that all the elements they didn't reach for for extra counts, and they didn't overcharge like the case we talked about just a short while ago. Why should that person go to trial? If If they've charged them correctly, and if they're offering an outcome, that's that that's in the interest of justice. What was the justification for going to trial? Well, it's our for your probated sentence sentence, your first time offense, and they're offering you an opportunity for the rehabilitation, what would you gain by going to trial when they're just going to convict you? What would be the benefit of that?

Andy  38:20  
Well, I mean, if you are innocent, and the stigma and the baggage that comes along with having a conviction is pretty steep. And if you are innocent, why would you take the plea?

Larry  38:32  
Well, that was the question I posed. I said, you said, If everybody went to trial, we would have to assume that at least a fraction of the people that put police charge are guilty of something, right? That is true. Okay, so I'm going to assume that probably at least 50% plus one of the people that police charged are guilty, and it's probably a lot harder than that. I would agree with that. So I'm posing the question. Why should there be a trial on everything? If they're offering If they haven't overcharged you over indicted you if they're offering you an outcome that is rehabilitative and and what what would be the benefit to you? The best you could help for to go to trial, if the evidence is overwhelming against you would be that the the what they offered you, with the judge by do that. So what would be the reason to go to trial if you know you're guilty and they have not overcharged? You Why would you do that?

Andy  39:26  
I don't have an answer for that, then. It was, it would make it would make the judicial system more expedient and efficient and doing that way

Larry  39:35  
to have more trials and were

Andy  39:37  
able to take a plea. I mean, that's what I'm saying.

Larry  39:40  
So well, and if everybody did do that, which they're not going to but if everybody did do that, you are correct. The capacity would have to be dramatically expanded, or the put through would have to be dramatically reduced or a combination of the two because if every single case let's go and go to trial, but every single cases never go to go to trial. Every single case has never gone to trial. Even in the best of times, all the cases didn't go to trial.

Andy  40:03  
You know, this almost sounds like balancing the budget. Larry, we have to increase revenue and reduce spending.

Larry  40:08  
What a concept. Shall

Andy  40:13  
we move on

Larry  40:13  
where we're doing? We're doing the we're doing the the increase of revenue, that's a natural that happens and the US revenues go up, regardless whose present dollar problem is that and this administration spending is going up four times right revenue. That's the only problem with this one. But go ahead with the next question. I

Andy  40:30  
just want to know, are you ready to move on to the next article before we go down that down that rabbit trail?

Unknown Speaker  40:36  
Sure.

Andy  40:37  
Alright. So we're going to be moving to the Washington Post. And these prosecutors one office vowing to fight the system. Now the system is fighting back. I know, I know exactly. Like what I don't know exactly. We covered when Larry Krasner started making these changes to prosecute fewer crimes and all these things that the legislature that came right behind him said, Nope, you can't do that. I don't know what the results of those things are. But This is a prosecutor in Boston, we should get Richard on the podcast to speak some of these terms so that we can have the right accent and trying to do something similar of prosecuting less crimes or isn't jaywalking illegal very?

Larry  41:16  
Well, it generally is. Yeah. Okay.

Andy  41:18  
But I don't know that I've ever seen anyone heard of anyone being prosecuted, perhaps in New York City where like, you have to have very regulated traffic control so the cars and the people can move about. But why don't those get prosecuted? I realize it's a misdemeanor and probably kind of an extreme example, but nobody prosecutes that crime. So isn't it at the discretion of the DA of what they prosecute anyway?

Larry  41:42  
Well, well, it is. But the part that you're missing that everybody misses is that you're talking about people's livelihoods here. And I have yet to find people who want to, to cut themselves out of existence. And can you can you think of an occupation where they say gee, Can't wait till we downsize to the point that I'm not needed anymore. When I have conversations that the Kroger store next door, they don't say that I wouldn't have conversations with the bus drivers that operate the city transit. They don't say that when I have conversations with the garbage truck operators, they don't say that I prison operators, judges, prosecutors, all these people depend on the system the way it is now. If you change the way the system is down markedly and you have fewer people being prosecuted, that sets off a whole chain reaction of your people needed down the line. That means the officers don't get overtime to be in court to show up for docket calls where the case is to continue and I get to come back several times. That means that pre sentence report writers don't get the right prisons report. So we don't need as many people in the probation department because we don't have as many people the system to supervise. It means fear people being sent to prison it means like cascading effect a loss of job And you think these people are just going to magically say, of course, I would like to see fewer fewer people employed by professional, the counselors that provide. I mean, it's nonsensical to think that people are going to willingly want to see this apparatus downsize,

Andy  43:13  
isn't it not our souls objective to work our way out of being an organization?

Larry  43:19  
down debt is it absolutely is that will never be able to do that. I know. Because Because Because there will never be an end to to have unconstitutionality of stuff that people propose and get enacted into law. But ideally, we would very much like to have no longer be a need for us because we're all volunteers. We'd like to cease volunteering, but, but in terms of people who whose livelihoods are at stake. The listeners Feel free to shoot me emails on people who are who are trying their best to to get themselves out of existence. I don't think the cross country truck drivers are trying to end their jobs. I just can't think of it when when the railroad industry downsized. It was I quit Heaven, Caboose or People at the front of the train and as a Caboose, I don't think they were saying, gee, we don't need this job anymore the elevator I mean, I want it all. Who wants to eliminate their job?

Andy  44:11  
So so your email address is old curmudgeon@gmail.com. Is that right?

Larry  44:16  
That's correct. But so what but but my point is there shouldn't be any surprise that there's the pushback, because you're talking about upsetting the status quo. And you're talking about people who, whose livelihoods depend on this thing that that that they're being impacted adversely. Of course, they're going to push back. You can't tell me a scare tactic. Hang

Andy  44:36  
on, stop somebody that just has their paycheck come in versus destroying some of these life, that I don't even know how those two things would actually end up being compared together.

Larry  44:46  
They don't see themselves as destroying people's lives. You can't find people who work in the system who thinks that they're doing bad things

Andy  44:53  
that's disturbing on its own.

Larry  44:56  
Well, we'll start asking them start with your pls MB. Thanks. You're doing bad things and go around ask the cops, would you run into a big cops? I do you think you're doing good or bad?

Andy  45:05  
I do that as talking to my own handler about this that that individuals says that their caseload is too high. And it's a waste of time to monitor the number of people that they monitor and that they should be able to focus their energy on the individuals that they believe to be a higher threat.

Larry  45:22  
Okay, well, that but as as that same handwork, if they were to do a dramatic reduction and include elimination of your hamburgers job, ask her how they how that would go off. Yeah. We reduce it. Yeah. Well, that's, that's what you're talking about what you're dramatically altering the status quo. You're talking about an impact on people's livelihoods. Yeah. And people who do this work for a living, I don't care where they work in prisons, they don't see themselves. Now. They may internally know that they do. They do bad things, but when they go sing in the choir on Sunday morning, they tell people I'm keeping you safe from the bad guys. I go to this horrible prison, and I'll work with this with these environment and I try to keep them from coming out. To do bad things to you, that's what they would say they would not go in and say that I put I do everything I can to make my life miserable that I juggle the keys as loud as I can and assemble doors as hard as I can. And I turn on the lights in the middle of night they're not gonna tell that when they when they're talking about what a job they do they're not going to say that I'm an evil person once last time you've heard someone say that

Andy  46:21  
I guess I really haven't heard many people say that one. Yeah, I put

Larry  46:25  
I put their medicine and water let it explode before I give them their medication. I mean, I used to I used to know of jail guards who did that they thought it was good to great satisfaction out of of reading people's mail dropped it in the floor because they thought it had some perfume on it and they wanted to make sure that the the perfume was on the floor when the when the when the inmate was sniffing the the letter because it was reminding them that his loved one had put the the nice scent afraid. I mean, I've you probably know far more about what goes on behind those walls than I do but but I know enough to know that there's some there questionable people work but they don't see themselves that way.

Andy  47:03  
You did a puny amount of time. Didn't you?

Larry  47:06  
appear to Matt? Yeah, like six months.

Andy  47:10  
We'll come back to that later. I do anybody at

Larry  47:13  
you could do six months standing on your head. I

Andy  47:14  
I completely agree with that sentiment. I completely agree with it. But there's one little thing in here. So this prosecutor says Rollins, that's the the woman's name. What is her first name? What is her first name her. Shoot Rachel Rollins. That's her name. So Miss Rollins, who was raised in Cambridge developed her views about the justice system in part through her experience as a federal prosecutor in Boston, Boston, excuse me. The system also touched her personal life. Two of her siblings are incarcerated she said and a third of them recovery for opioid addiction. In addition to her own teenage daughter, she said Rollins is the guardian for two nieces because of her siblings. circumstances. That was the point I wanted to highlight was that she is the caretaker of the the the Nice to have the kids from her brothers that are in prison. That's the destruction of lives that I'm referring to. Yes, they probably committed crimes. I'm not questioning that, or maybe they committed crimes. But it said that the collateral damage on the other side of all this stuff going down is just horrific to me.

Larry  48:16  
Well, that's a conversation that I wish we were having in this country because as the demographics continued to be more unfavorable to us, where we're headed toward the European model of zero population growth and and and and possibly negative population growth, depending on how much would clamp down on our borders and on immigration. But But what we won't we won't be several people with a with a felony in particular sex felonies, but felonies in general with criminal records. We reduce their earning potential, and we need to have a conversation about that what we're doing that we're we're relegating these people to second class status. And we're we're hurting our own sales because that trillion dollar budget deficit we just finished at the federal level, the year that ended step tember 30th of what is that about a month ago? Yeah, that that number is going to continue to grow because we need these people working and earning maximum pay so that they can if we don't want any new arrivals, and we don't have a birth rate internally, if we don't do that, and we're negative population growth, our demographics are just like Japan's. And just like some of the European countries that they're, they're facing this, and we need to have that conversation about, hey, we need these folks earning at their maximum potential, we need to remove as many barriers as we can so that they can earn maximum money because we've got our paws out wanting to collect what we think that we've paid into. And actually what we've paid into is supported the previous generation. And I know you've had that conversation with a guy that you worked with. And through the years he Hayes's lot paid into that and I said, Well, unfortunately you paid into it for the for the previous generation. That's not that's not your money. I think.

Andy  49:54  
I think we left out immigration, two out of that, that we have we you know, we've clamped that down pretty tight too.

Larry  49:58  
Well, that's all I did. I did say Immigration depends depends on how much more we clamp down on immigration. But But immigration has been our salvation in terms of keeping our country in a growth, population growth status. Without without immigration, we've we've already flatlined, and it probably negative as far as internal. And that's not a favorable trend for a nation to have an aging population. And and not not a not a significant generation following them to support them. And we need to make sure that we're conscious of that and criminal records diminish. I mean, if it was just two people that had a criminal record, but we have what a significant number of Americans with criminal records, it's a pretty big chunk, that they're dead, or I think it's something we're approaching 20% I believe I was on

Andy  50:44  
a third, I thought, Yeah, definitely. So somehow that yes, they've touched the criminal justice system in some form or fashion.

Larry  50:51  
And that's significant degradation and they're in their earnings potential with the with those records. And we're going to have to have that conversation at one of our articles. That's going to come up here shortly about Michigan. They're actually having that conversation.

Andy  51:03  
Yes. Let's move over to courthouse news again. judge wants to know which Texas prison official lied. I just want to bring up one thing about this article. This has to do with making a certain number of prisons in Texas have air conditioning. So because there are people that are very sensitive to the heat, and I mean, like Texas, that's not really that hard of a state. But the thing is just

Larry  51:27  
110 degrees,

Andy  51:28  
just 100 degrees, man combined. If you if you can't add 110 you're not you're not even trying. But the thing that I wanted to point out is at the very end of the article, it says, There's no plan to track the temperature at the non AC prisons. Holy crap, man. So they're all they're trying to keep the prisons that are air conditioned 88 degrees, which is still pretty hot, but you know, I guess it's tolerable because there's not gonna be any humidity. But can you imagine then at the other prisons, they're not even going to keep track of how hot it is. That's insanity. Larry

Larry  52:00  
Well, let's see if that appeals to Texans. If you were to go out and poll, the average Texan, I'm not talking about 100%. But if you take a poll across a broad section of Texans, and you ask, do you think that we should air conditioned the prisons? And you stop at the end of that question? The average person would say, No, right? It's not a country. It's not a country club. And, and by golly, when I was coming along, when I was young, we didn't even have air conditioning, but I was a kid. And I somehow got through it and these people who are breaking the law, and they want us they are we already feeding them and closing them. And we're already doing all this for costing us money. And all you want to do is just spend more money so that we have to pay taxes to take care of these freeloaders. I think we're paid enough already. That would be the average reaction from the average Texan. And until that reaction is different. The officials in Texas are going to return flecked that that will of the people because that is what they're supposed to be reflecting as the will of the people. That's what we do to representative Republic. And, and when the people start calling saying, I can't believe you're taking that position because it doesn't represent me. I believe that we would, we would not treat a dog this way. And I believe that the health ramifications from from overheating are so significant that we want our prisons to be at least moderately ventilated. I think that you would see the Texas prison officials magically change their position. And you'd see the elected officials who make policy for Texas, you'd see them magically change their position. They're barely representing what the people want. The one other

Andy  53:40  
thing that I would bring up is to hearken back to what you just said earlier about your one prison in your state that Texas has more than 100 prisons. But now,

Larry  53:51  
I said that at that time, and I know a lot a lot a lot of prisons now, but we don't have 100 thankfully, good grief

Andy  53:57  
and also I mean obviously Texas A greater population than New Mexico but still man, hundred prisons.

Larry  54:05  
What what Texas incarcerates at a higher rate than we do. Oh, but why is that come? Well, again, it reflects the will of the average Texas, Texas person, Texas and across the south, the Bible fit forgiving belt. They are very, very harsh on they believe, by God eye for an eye, tooth for tooth and he did that crime and he needs to pay for it and he needs to pay for work. So he don't forget about it he time. So that's the attitude in Texas and Alabama, Louisiana, bro, they have these high rates of incarceration, comparatively not even states in this country who have low rates of incarceration. We're still above all of the rest of Western world.

Andy  54:49  
Yes,

Larry  54:50  
we're still incarcerate. Even the progressive states that are incarcerated a far lower rate. We still outdo the rest of the world in terms of the way they battled. Based on population, but but the South is particularly harsh with with with with how how how many people they incarcerate

Andy  55:09  
it's very sad. So those people are going to get roasted and Ryan points out and chat he just saying that if you keep it cool around 60 to 70 degrees Fahrenheit, there'll be less violence too hot actually causes the amygdala activation. That's almost like

Unknown Speaker  55:24  
the amygdala.

Unknown Speaker  55:26  
How do you spell that?

Andy  55:28  
AMIGDA la. And that's totally true. That's just another one like

Unknown Speaker  55:34  
the

Larry  55:34  
AIGDE going

Andy  55:37  
DA la

Larry  55:40  
All right, I've never I've never heard that before.

Andy  55:42  
Oh, man, another word. So this is another one of these like, you know, Central Processing things of your brain that when you're angry and cranky.

Larry  55:51  
So we've got people know a whole lot more about brains than I do.

Unknown Speaker  55:54  
Yes, but you know a whole lot more about the law and how to do policy and stuff, but so you gotta speed on

Unknown Speaker  56:00  
So soda Dabba Doo

Larry  56:05  
and make make Delilah whatever

Andy  56:10  
that would be amygdala there try that can you say I make?

Unknown Speaker  56:13  
I make? I make dolla

Unknown Speaker  56:15  
yeah there you go

Andy  56:19  
dolla blah,

Larry  56:22  
blah, blah. Okay

Andy  56:26  
all right another article from courthouse news is eight circuit strikes down Arkansas anti panhandling law. This has nothing to do with registry stuff Larry, why did you throw this garbage in here?

Larry  56:37  
It doesn't have much to do with it, but it does tangentially and that's why I put it in here. Because what we have is a circuit which is up disinterred United States, Missouri, Arkansas, Nebraska. Forgot Hochberg goes how many states where they are here what we have as a circuit court Expressing great to be a city about restrictions on speech by the government. Because Arkansas has this panhandling law that that, that they that they are insisting on trying. You got two ways to deal with panhandling and homelessness, you can, you can lock them up like they used to pretend you don't have a problem. Or you can actually spend money on trying to deal with homeless so they try to criminalize poverty. And that's what they've done. And this these these two took this up, that they took up the challenge to the US Circuit Court of Appeals for the circuit. And what what it's telling me is that, that this circuit seems to be pretty adamant about about intrusion by the government, in the area of speech. And even those who we don't think a lot of homeless people are pretty much despised and scoffed at and people spit out of them, throw things at them and tell them to get a job and loser and all that kind of stuff. But the courts are We're going to protect your rights. So what reason I put it in there is that I think Missouri has a Halloween band where that people can't express themselves. And I think that, that this would connect nicely to government suppression on expression because as the eight circuit pointed out, and I didn't put the highlights of this one like I did in the element, but his dates were hit pointed out, that when you when you when you do a content based restriction, which is what they did in this, in this statute, they restricted the content and that's what they're doing at Halloween. When there's restricted, you can't put a decoration. They describe all the things you cannot do. On Halloween, you can't have you can't have decorations, you can't work costumes, you can't you can't put on makeup and all these things. What they're doing that's that's a content based restriction, which those have to be narrowly tailored. And as far as I know, the states that are doing that they're not narrowly tailoring those because you buy could withstand judicial scrutiny with a narrowly tailored Halloween restriction that was only applied to certain people. So this gives me hope that we can look at that part of the country as a possible new front in the war on Halloween restrictions. And so that's why I put it in there.

Andy  59:18  
I like it. I like when you you pull out the the tangentially related ones. That, that that's why we pay you the big bucks.

Larry  59:27  
So that's what I see in this case is we've got an eight circuit telling us. So if I were licensed to practice law, and in Missouri, I would take a very good look at that eight circuit decision, I'd take a very good look at the Halloween restrictions that Missouri and I would, I would contact the state officials and say, I don't think you need to be enforcing this any longer because if you do, I'm going to sue you and of course, they would say go ahead, and then I would say okay, and we've got a bunch of money off for you that that's what I think I would do. But since I'm not licensed to practice law, I can't do that. But I encourage Just made to look around for people who might have the capacity to do that cuz I think there might be a nugget here.

Andy  1:00:07  
And this next article comes from the fake news headquarters of CNN. I'm really just kidding. I'm just trying to troll some folks out there that probably do think that cnn is fake news. Before its execution, a death row inmate told his victims of family he forgives them. Did you put this in there because of his particular sexual orientation?

Larry  1:00:27  
No, I just thought that, that I was just kind of cute that usually usually it's the other way around. And he forgives the family for big bad at home. I just thought it was kind of a ironic twist.

Andy  1:00:41  
I thought because because it's he seems to have been convicted because the jury found out of his gay stance and this was the 90s before it would have really gained a lot of acceptance in our society. I was convicted at 22 in 1992. I'm sorry, he was he stabbed a 22 year old. I don't know how old he was in an 1992 but back then there was significantly less acceptance of people of that persuasion. So I wasn't sure that that was why you put it in here.

Larry  1:01:08  
Well, what was the sexual orientation? I kind of glossed over that what he was really,

Andy  1:01:12  
he just says on appeal, Ryan's relied on the notes to argue anti gay prejudice had influence on the jurors sentencing decision, that's all.

Unknown Speaker  1:01:18  
So he saw he was he was gay,

Andy  1:01:21  
I'm assuming based on that, yeah, that he was gay. I don't know that it actually said he is. But with that in there,

Larry  1:01:27  
but you know, I just I just, you know, when people make their final statement, I seldom hear of them. Of course, I'm not not in favor of the death penalty. But but people who make their final state but I've rarely heard that they usually they ask for the family to forgive them when they say you know that they wish they had ever done that but have forgiven the family. I thought that was kind of cute.

Andy  1:01:48  
All right. Well, then let's move over to the Detroit Free Press that is bills to expand criminal record expunged past Michigan house. Now then I would wonder if it's going to pass the other side of the aisle. Congress up there and but this lets people with certain sentences certain crimes convictions and after a certain period of time seal the records down that sounds like a good thing to me

Larry  1:02:13  
I thought I had put another article and and I've if I didn't feel free to give me grief for this but there was another article that followed this because they had passed the house and it said that so it's now the Senate and there was some Republican senator was trying to weaken it kind of like on the first step yeah act that we had the Republican opposition

Andy  1:02:35  
I'm Parson a grave I do remember something like that where they had the voting numbers I seem to remember so well

Larry  1:02:41  
this was overwhelming this this was on the house I This was extremely there was only a few an opposition but I thought I had another article in here that said that in the Senate that there's some Republican opposition springing up and and that that if I'm wrong about will will retract it next week. But what if what if I'm right about it. I would caution people that you need to let those those holdouts like Tom Cotton in Arkansas at the federal level, he was the leader of that six or eight Republican senators who thought the first step that went went too far. You need to let the people in Michigan know that that that are that are trying to weaken this progress that you don't agree with them. Because they won't know that you don't agree with them. If you don't tell them you don't agree with a particular if you live in the districts of the ones who were who were in opposition to this going too far, that they say this goes too far. Like I said, I thought I had put a link in here to an article but I don't see it.

Andy  1:03:35  
I thought I remember reading it were but I did remember reading that there was republican hold out over there too. It is possible that I deleted it or one of us deleted it while we were getting ready for tonight. Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's something in there with some some like I mean, it's like 90 to 10 as far as the the support and so one guy as I recall, and I could be wrong on this was saying something like well, why won't you let my DUI conviction off of you Their record expunged. I seem to remember a quote like that in the other article. That's interesting. Let me ask you this question there. In regards to this, let's if we would relate this over to people's credit that after a period of time, things fall off your credit, and your recent payment history has a significant amount of influence over what your credit score is. Why wouldn't we treat your criminal records so that you know if it's one year past your conviction? Well, yeah, we would weigh that heavily. But if it was 20 years ago, like a maybe it does get not necessarily expunged but sealed and people don't necessarily find it. Why don't we maybe model our criminal justice history system sort of like the credit

Unknown Speaker  1:04:41  
system?

Larry  1:04:42  
Well, I agree with that. But you have, you have a lot of pushback from the business community on this and I know that our people are big business is good for the country. It was good for us to be they'll slogan was good for GM is good for the country when GM was so large, but big business says that they did this inflammation because they're potentially responsible for negligent hard decisions. And the fact of the matter is, if it's a part of who the person is, like, say that your past is a part of who you are, if we don't have him, if we don't have that information, we can't make good decisions that we're ultimately responsible for. So you get a lot of pushback from the business community. And and I don't know how to overcome that. Because, you know, being that I'm such a horrible anti capitalist, there's a sub have said, I don't know how to get through to reach them, but but that's where a lot of the pushback comes from it but I agree that's what we should do. And that's what this bill does. This bill as its as it's gone through the house would make the would make automatic its budget for certain felony felons after 10 years and distributors after seven years, right. And and that would allow for expansion of marijuana offenses offense would not have been a crime is committed for use of recreational marijuana and it goes on with all these different categories of what it what it will do. And don't let Don't let the train records record on the other end the other side of the rotunda You know, this is there's momentum apparently very good bipartisan momentum and let's let's keep it going because because this is what we need, we need these things to automatically happen like you're talking about and that's that's where this legislation was headed. You don't need to have to file for an expansion but you don't need to have to spend money for a clemency and all this stuff you need after a period of time for what you did to be no longer relevant to who you are today.

Andy  1:06:35  
I have a funny little story to share with you. There's a big big box distribution center in the area. And I was speaking to someone that works there about two other people one of them got the job and they had a record and they were only there for a matter of days then I think like the higher ups like the the corporate side of the they know ship camp. But then there's another person that that's a complete slug like doesn't want to work with won't do anything but there's no felony there. And that person gets to stay. And I mean, this is the bottom of the barrel as far as like just manual labor moving boxes around and stuff like that. But so the person with the record, probably, I'm just going to assume I'm going to reject that this person's like, man, I gotta get any job possible and I will do that I will be the best employee possible. Just give me a chance. And just because of the record, the person gets scanned, and the other person who doesn't have a record but as lazy as all get out, and they keep that personal route.

Larry  1:07:33  
That is correct. And my friend that we do the secret bunker that has the business. PR he learned that lesson himself he he he's downsized because of age and the fact that businesses dying and that and that line of work but but he had he had a few employees at one time and he took one that was on work release. I think he was it work really said either Clayton I hit return but one of the one of the counties nearby there Why that while that guy was on work release, his attendance was fantastic. He managed to get out of that jail house and make it to the job site on time Spry, ready to work and he didn't want that mystery beat me today served at the jailhouse. He wanted to get his own food all the way into work at once he got off work released once that time expired, his work ethic deteriorated significantly, but really, he didn't a lot. Yeah, he didn't no longer have to when your work release every hour that you can convince them that you're working, gets you out of the jail. That's true. So you all your magical you're working 12 hour day, so we'll have to beat her seven in the morning and I don't let me out till 630 in the evening, or whatever is as long as you can milk it, that's what you would do. So he works as many hours as he could and but magically when he was when he was no longer work released in his hate gravitated back to the norm. That's the point you're making. The person who had a probation officer satisfy and cost to pay if they're if they run a type of supervision. They would probably be a very dependable worker, more so than the person who doesn't have to those, those barriers around them those the requirements, so I would tend to want to give the person a chance. If it were reasonable. I mean, what risk do you have in a warehouse?

Andy  1:09:16  
I got nothing, I got nothing as to why there would be a risk in that particular violent environment. It's a crap environment. It sounds like to me.

Larry  1:09:24  
So but yes, that

Andy  1:09:26  
you know, that like, like, you were just saying that the business pushback their their liability of having that felon, somebody with a record on their campus, I guess that outweighs the humanitarian side of it. The empathy side is, oh,

Larry  1:09:40  
well, if they were doing an individualized analysis, I would have less objection if they just have a policy. We don't have any felons period. That's that's that's overbroad, but that was not his property management does. Well, but when I did property management, it was all individualized analysis. And of course, it had to be subjective and the person had one star You tend to say, well, who makes the decision? I said, Well, I do, who else would, you know, I'm the general manager, I make the decision. And, and, but But we, we would look at the totality of everything that we could get ahold of about the person in terms of what their offense actually entailed, and that met their defenders version, plus the other versions that existed. And we looked at what they had done and the way of prison behavior as a, as a consideration. And we looked at what if they had been out if they were not trying to come straight out to our property, we looked at how they had, how they had performed other residential environments where there'd be a halfway house or whether it be living in the community. And we took all that into consideration, along with the financial considerations of their ability to meet the obligations, and we made a decision what depending on the type crime they had, you might say, Gee, I just don't think that's going to be within a risk tolerance level that we can that we can. We just can't do that. But there are a lot of crimes I'd be I wouldn't have any interest. Martha Stewart is a felon, would you? I mean, if she's cooking

Andy  1:11:03  
man, I think everyone's gonna be happy.

Larry  1:11:06  
I mean, so all felonies are not I mean, I'll bet on the other hand, you probably would have a little bit of trepidation of Charlie Manson had a parole? Well, let's say he has been in prison, I mean, he's dead down to so academic death. But if he if he if he had if they had realistic I consider him for parole, and you look at the heinous nature of the crimes and then you would take into account a lot of considerations about what he did in prison. Well, I'll during the prison, he never expressed any remorse. He always said, I may I think geraldo rivera interviewed, how many setup I just might kick your ass right here, this prison. Everything that you saw by him and the evidence you could gather suggested that he did not say things they do differently. So that would be one you probably wouldn't want to consider as a reintegrating potential that you would make that allowance for so it's all situational.

Andy  1:11:54  
I would also want stock advice from Martha Stewart. You want to know unheard of imagine your portfolio?

Larry  1:12:02  
Well, I don't know she did pretty well, didn't she?

Andy  1:12:05  
I think she did well, but she didn't necessarily make them. Well. She was unknown about the I think I think I'm being kind of snarky, but so don't don't allow Charles Manson to be alone with anybody, perhaps, but maybe he could. He could be a good meat clerk kind of, you know, the meat counter. a butcher probably just say, All right.

Larry  1:12:27  
I don't know. I don't know why don't have a sharp instruments.

Andy  1:12:30  
That's what I'm saying. So keep them behind the other side of the wall there. Anyway. Alright, so let's move over to this final article before we have some extra content to cover. This is from the AJC and this is a Georgia set to execute re Jeff from Marty on November 13. The last thing there in this article is that they why if there's controversy over whether he or the other person is the actual one that committed the murder, and the victim's daughter is in favor of a DNA test. Why wouldn't our system say sure we're interested in justice? Why wouldn't we go ahead and do some sort of DNA test to actually verify before we nuke the guy?

Larry  1:13:13  
Well, we face people. I mean, they're just always grasping for straws and its appeal after appeal. He knows he done it. And I don't know why you bleeding hearts come in here. And you're always, always wanting me afford a city and what will what would you want next after a DNA test? It'll be it'll be something else you want. I mean, he's convicted. His appeals have been denied execution dates been set. What more do we have to do to satisfy?

Unknown Speaker  1:13:44  
Ah,

Andy  1:13:44  
I would think that we would err on the side of keeping someone alive as opposed to indiscriminately nuking people.

Larry  1:13:52  
Well, he's not making indiscriminately new piece been found guilty as appeals of all failed. What's not that's not indiscriminate.

Andy  1:14:01  
Considering that it's Georgia in the 90s, black guy, I'm going to throw some sort of claim out there that it was possibly an not an impartial jury. No. Yeah, I know. Right. Right. And Georgia, one of the execution states, so this is the 74th since 1976.

Larry  1:14:26  
So yes, they they run in the top five states of executions. And, again, there's your south, that's where the execution is happening United States, but Georgia has has been on the forefront and former corrections, where they call them Secretary don't come Secretary George of the Commissioner of corrections, a former corrections Commissioner, Alan, Dr. Alan alt. Oh, you're so so yes. who oversaw many executions in his various careers says running corrections departments in Georgia and I think Mississippi maybe and maybe another state i think he was had a crack in sensory states. He said it just doesn't provide people the the closure that they're looking for. And he was worried that that that they may have executed some people who shouldn't have been executed. This is example of that when I take off my sarcasm, yes, this is an example where we want to get this right. Because we can we can get people financial compensation, but if it turns out that it's proven later that that that he did not do the deed. I'm not sure that we're going to have a lot of recourse if he's executed and he's on the schedule for this coming week.

Andy  1:15:40  
Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm not a fan they knew somebody was a Jackson once. I was in my little 10 week stay there. So that was kind of you didn't know what happened. But I mean, like I knew because I was listen to the radio is listen to NPR at the time, so I knew that it was coming down the pike but you know, sound like the lights Damned in the in the in the prison while they did it but

Larry  1:16:03  
I was gonna ask you all those all those TV shows they show the lights flickering so they don't actually flicker

Andy  1:16:08  
now not as far as I knew, but they barely had any lights on it. I mean, the electric bill in this place had to have been my electric bill at my house probably is less than what is at Jackson State Prison. Because there's no air conditioning there's there's nothing going on at that place. That would be anything a modicum of modern day creature comforts of any sort. I thought I had been told that that facility is air conditioned is that not the case? They have some air conditioned places like with the kitchen people work they their air conditioned but the dorm at least not where I was not where I was.

Larry  1:16:41  
Well, I guess that'll teach you not to want to come back.

Andy  1:16:44  
No shit. It was hot. Well, I shouldn't even say it was hot because I got there I think about this time. Let's see. Yeah, I got to I got to Jackson about this time of year and you know it was getting cold. And they were like passing out all kinds of extra blankets. stuff when I was there

Larry  1:17:02  
so they did have compassion for cold just not for heat

Andy  1:17:07  
and they pass out all kinds of extra blankets and stuff. So well I've

Larry  1:17:12  
known that to be a battle for some correctional officials because they say those blankets can be used for weapons and and I can take it back in the day they would burn maybe they're using more fire retardant but they would they would people were allowed to smoke they said they can build bonfires but we can't give the said makes more than one blanket.

Andy  1:17:30  
Yeah. And they and they actually then said, well, you have to jumpsuits like to the like the ones these whatever the hell you want to call them. So we're both of them. Like, wow, that's where we are. We got to wear two sets of clothes, put on 17 pairs of socks sleep with your boots on and put blankets on so you can stay some level of warm and it didn't really work that well.

Larry  1:17:49  
I don't see a problem that you should have thought about that.

Andy  1:17:52  
I know right? I knew that was coming. Show the thought of that. All right, let's so so all of that is all said and done. We received it An email message from a listener from a brand new listener this past week talking about that you are sending our people down a very dangerous path of the that they should just be flipping and go. I don't have to register when I go into these other places. I'm going to stay as long as I want. I don't care. And I know I'm mischaracterizing it, but that's going to sort of the gist of what it is and I I'm providing you we are providing you the floor and the opportunity to clarify what you mean by all these things.

Larry  1:18:30  
Well, he he said that, that what I don't think I'm doing but he certainly can interpret that way of what I'm telling people is and first of all, he said that Georgia requires that I cannot find that in the Georgia statute or you're required to notify them about a state travel. And I've got a very current version of the official code the state of Georgia 42 dash one dash 12 sec spend the righteous sexual offender registry and it goes on for 20 pages that I can't find for our state travel is required. Notice now, it could be that you, if you want to read and try to invent a requirement, you could try to read something in there that isn't there. But if it's in that, if it's in there, I would like for that listener to point to me to the subsection so that I can become more familiar with Georgia registry. So I don't see a requirement. Now, having said that, the feds do ask the states to put that in as one of the check offs and AWS compliance. So if you're going to comply with federal law, that would be one of the measures that they would look at to see if your state was substantially compliant. So absences for seven or more days, they do ask that that be a part of your statutory scheme. I believe that's one word that there's a workaround, because if you're substantially compliant doesn't mean absolute compliance. So therefore, some states have put that into their statutory scheme that absences more than seven days Did you have to file notice? I'm not aware that big and the Georgia law. So So in terms of what you need to do for your state where you're registered at, you need to comply with the law of that state, whatever it is, but don't invent things that are not there. If if it's there, I urge you to comply with it. But if the tax rate is 17%, I'm wondering how many people would pay 35%. So if you're not required to follow a travel itinerary, that would mean that no prosecution could ensue for failing to do that, therefore, therefore, if someone asked me, Do I have to do that, I would say no, you don't have to because the law doesn't require it. But you're certainly welcome to do that. If you want to feel good about yourself. And if you want to go the sheriff's office, you want to spend a half a day. And if you want to give your private itinerary where you're going to go all that that's fine. I don't have any problem with the person doing that. But I don't think it's a requirement in the state of Georgia that you do that now then flip side for it. Go ahead.

Andy  1:20:58  
Well, I was I was I mean, I was Want to clarify? You're not a lawyer providing legal advice. You are just a incredibly savvy legal expert. But you are not saying here's the legal, like you are authorized to do this because you're a lawyer.

Larry  1:21:13  
Well, I'm not giving anybody legal advice. I'm looking at a statute which I'm allowed to do in America, I'm allowed to have an opinion. And I have an opinion reading through the registration statute, Georgia, I have not been able to zero in on the section that requires you to do that. So if if he can cite to that section, I would come back on the next episode and say, Well, actually, in Georgia law says if you're going to be upset more than seven days, that you have to do that, but I can't find it. So so so I can opine that I can't see it. And I can opine if it's not in the law, that I don't think that you can be prosecuted successfully, because in order for there to be subject matter jurisdiction, to take a plea of guilty. Someone has to say on behalf of the State of Georgia that the accused didn't do this as required by this section A law. And if it's not in the law, I don't know what they would cite to that would provide the subject matter jurisdiction to take a plea. And so that's all I'm saying.

Andy  1:22:12  
Yeah. And just just like there's the 72 hour thing where it says if you change your residence like were you sleep for 72 hours, that's if you're changing residence like I have now moved out of this apartment and I moved into another apartment, that would be the 72 hour requirement.

Larry  1:22:28  
Well, that's that's what it appears to say. It doesn't say if you're going to be out of the state that you must follow an itinerary. But But changes are required within 72 hours but being out of the state on a visit and my estimation is not the same as saying you will file advance notice about a state travel that's what he alleges that he does and he's okay. I'm okay with him doing that. Except it's it's not required. So I can't say it in the statute. But then there's the other side of when you leave a state for a visit, to go to the other state, you could fall within the zone of registration, depending on how many hours you're in that state. And everyone is different. There, there are a lot of differences, I can't tell you how many have. But it could be anywhere from as little as 48 hours to like in the state of Georgia. If you therefore take content to a stage or Keynote of 30, it's going to trigger registration obligation for it out of state or, again, what I said as that for if you're in the state of Nevada for 49 hours and 12 minutes, I'm saying they will not be a plume of radiation that will surge out of your body and that hour and 12 minutes. That's what I'm saying. Now if somebody can prove that I'm wrong, that there is a surge of radiation and there is a plume that goes out of your body. I would like to see evidence of that but there is no such plumes of radiation that goes out of you that causes a hovercraft to come in and encircle you and say, we're going to keep this beam on you until we get law enforcement to pick you up. So, and I also have said that I have not found any evidence of a prosecution for person, because even as bad as law enforcement is, and I'm free to freely criticize law enforcement, I have not don't have a case that dubious where they said, hahaha, we got you 48 hours and 17 minutes. Could it be possible? Yes, it certainly could be possible. But since you should, you have to jump through some hoops of knowing. And there's 50 different knowing requirements around the country of because the registration, there's no uniformity, and how long you can be in a particular state. My experience tells me that they would tell you to get registered once you admitted you would been there more than 48 hours they would do what listeners have told us. I think we've even had a listener that told us that just recently Didn't we were Where's the word that they, he encountered him in Nebraska. And they told him that you, we do say you're registered IBU retro, another state. And if you're going to be here beyond whatever it is you need to register. But I have not seen a person prosecutor for being 12 minutes later. But again, it's personal choice. Absolutely, if you wanted to, if you're going to Nevada for three days, and you feel like that there will be a potential for problem and you want to spend six hours on the front side of your visit, checking in with the Clark County Sheriff and you want to spend six hours on the backside. I encourage you to do precisely that. If you want to set yourself up or you're on the registry of 40 other states where they don't remove you after you leave, which they don't in Florida, they don't end up. If you want to do that. I encourage you to do exactly that. If that makes you have peace of mind.

Andy  1:25:53  
Well, very good. I wanted to address that for sure. Is there any other content I seem to think I'm missing something as far as covering all the things for the evening,

Larry  1:26:01  
I think I think we've covered it all. And we've had a nice episode. tonight.

Andy  1:26:06  
I do want to have before we shut this MF down, I want to to give a shout out I saw a bunch of our people and friends of our people. There was a conference going on at Atlanta this weekend. I went up there and spent some time with them. And I'm saying hi to everybody that came from Colorado and Iowa and Oklahoma and New England, Boston, wherever he's from. Where's Richard from see from Boston.

Larry  1:26:31  
Hey, he's he's from New Hampshire, but he goes to the hapa. Okay, he goes to the hapa.

Andy  1:26:37  
And then a new guy. We got a new listener. He's he's up there. His name is Bill and he's in Ohio.

Unknown Speaker  1:26:44  
Ohio. Yep. So hello, Scott. Like, that's kind of like me saying hi. So Oh, hi, everybody.

Andy  1:26:53  
And without, wait, I can't I can't forget to do all this. Larry. How can we grow the podcast so this applies to all of you people that aren't getting us 47,000 Twitter followers like that dude, that's the vigilante justice guy. How can we grow the podcast?

Larry  1:27:07  
world from what it sounds like you were saying you need to share the podcast.

Andy  1:27:11  
That is what we need everyone to do go find all of your social media platforms and tell them we exist. So go find people on Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, I don't care, tell them that we exist. That's important.

Larry  1:27:22  
But But as you pointed out, a lot of people who are not impacted by this won't care about that. So how do you how do you narrow it down to the populations? that's interested? Wouldn't it be like in group therapy?

Andy  1:27:33  
I think that would be a stellar place that hey, anybody that's in treatment, why don't you say hey, there's this podcast that deals with our issue. Maybe you should give it a listen.

Larry  1:27:42  
We had a listener do that and he turned it to a therapist and she listened to it said that we were the Antichrist and she said that she would not encourage anyone to listen to us because I guess I must have been after listening to couple episodes. She heard me bash law enforcement and said This is a kook that we don't want our people listening to.

Andy  1:28:03  
I can I can second the nature of that Kook thing. But Alright, so how can we should have people grow the podcast where the where can they find it where

Larry  1:28:11  
they can find it if they're on the internet and they put in their search engine engine registry matters. Or they can just go register matters.ca and take a right to our to our page. And then how about a phone number to call in and leave a voicemail message? Yeah, we're going to disconnect this phone if we don't start getting more messages.

Andy  1:28:31  
Shut it down.

Larry  1:28:33  
7472 to 74477.

Andy  1:28:38  
And then how about emailing us?

Larry  1:28:40  
Those all go to you. That's registry matters. cast@gmail.com.

Andy  1:28:48  
And how about supporting the podcast and we love our supporters. We love all of our listeners, but the ones that support us we give out extra extra love.

Larry  1:28:57  
We do indeed. And that's Patreon. com slash red shoe matters are just patreon.com. And you can search for us.

Andy  1:29:04  
And one final

Larry  1:29:05  
question. How do you how do you how do you spell paper it style Patreon,

Andy  1:29:08  
PATREON. All right, I have a quick question for you.

Unknown Speaker  1:29:14  
All right. Is there a technical

Andy  1:29:15  
definition of FYP?

Larry  1:29:19  
It's not very technical. No, I would say that it would be very technical. In fact, got it.

Andy  1:29:25  
All right, we're done. That's it. We're out. Have a great night, Larry.

Larry  1:29:29  
So and thank you, everyone for being so, so supportive, and we're going to be at 100 by the end of the year for Patreon patrons, excuse me for patrons.

Andy  1:29:40  
Thanks, everybody. Have a great night. Talk to you soon. Bye. Good night.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai