Transcript of RM152: Can They Interfere With Where I Choose To Live?

Listen to RM152: Can They Interfere With Where I Choose To Live?

Andy 00:00
registry matters as an independent production. The opinions and ideas here are that of the hosts and do not reflect the opinions of any other organization. If you have a problem with these thoughts fyp recording live from fyp Studios, east and west, transmitted across the internet. This is Episode 152 of registry matters. Larry yet another Saturday night, we’ve made it another week after a week of turmoil and we’re not going to talk about politics. But this has been a pretty crazy week.

Larry 00:28
It definitely has an episode 152 we’re getting very close to my age.

Andy 00:34
We are for sure, can you can you tell us what that number is?

Larry 00:40
We just got another 20 or so episodes to go.

Andy 00:44
I think we’re gonna probably remain at 20 or so episodes to go for,

Unknown Speaker 00:48
for forever.

Andy 00:54
Well, we have an exciting show covered. We have some questions from listeners, we have a voicemail that we’re not going to play from Super patriot mic, and then a whole menagerie of articles that are going to run the whole gamut. We have a featured picture from the nozzle social media site, and then a couple things to wrap the show up. Are you ready to get things running there?

Larry 01:17
Let’s roll this train as one of our county commissioners used to say here.

Andy 01:23
Okay, so we have a question from someone that I believe is in Arizona says my wife and I were co defendants of a sexual offense. She’s done her prison time and probation etc. As for me, I get out of Arizona state prison in 2026. With two lifetime and five year probation, can you clarify that one to see if two lifetime sentences I don’t understand that?

Larry 01:46
I’m not clear on it either. I’m assuming there was multiple counts, and then they read them more consecutive. That’s what I mean. Good card. Excuse me. That’s what I’m assuming from it.

Andy 01:55
Okay, only to find that the Maricopa County has hidden a hidden agenda of keeping my wife and I from having contact or to cohabitate. There were no such disclosure in either of our plea agreements, or we wouldn’t have entered into such a contract that would violate our maternity rights, matrimony rights. Due to this ordeal, we’ve lost our home and assets and don’t know what to do. My wife and I have been together for 15 years. And without her, I have no reason to leave prison. We are so heartbroken and don’t know what to do sincerely. That is pretty awful. Overall.

Larry 02:30
I had intended to answer this in the newsletter and it came in few months back. And I realized I never got it in the newsletter because the space and then I intended to answer on the podcast. And I don’t remember us ever answering it. We’ve we’ve talked about similar things, but I don’t remember doing this one. So if we did, please forgive us. The answer is we don’t have enough information to know. For sure this is one of those things where at first blush, the probation authorities would have great difficulty in and prohibiting them. I mean, we’re assuming that they were married based on 50 years that 50 years would predate the offense, and the conviction. So therefore, this is not like one of those where people fall in love in prison through some kind of one of those writer prisoner websites, and they fall in love. And they they, the authorities say you can’t have a relationship with that person. And this one, this one was a preexisting marriage. And therefore, in my opinion, which is not a legally binding opinion, in my opinion, they would be on much thinner ice to prevent them from getting back together once he is out. But having said that, that doesn’t mean that they can’t, because as you know, they can do anything until their stop. But there might be good reasons for them to do it if they can, if they can specify, rather than just a generalized thing. We don’t let felons cohabitate because they’ll that wouldn’t apply here in my opinion, but if they can specify something unique to that offender, and how that it would not be in the interest of of community safety while he’s under supervision, that he’d be living with this person, because of the influence that they with that. I mean, there could be a scenario where it could be justified. So I don’t think we have enough information but I find it very troubling that he’s worried about that, because apparently someone has told him that that he’s not going to be able to to live with his life. It may be prison rumor that’s got him frightened or he may have something more substantive that that causes him this consternation, but if you’ve been with someone 50 years, it would it would be very troubling to boast that they couldn’t get back together.

Andy 04:53
And I recall Ashley saying something God is probably 25 or something episodes ago where she said something than the effect of like you have an absolute right to marry or something. I mean, she said that you, it would be constitutionally protected for you to be married. Something along those lines. I don’t remember how she worded it exactly.

Larry 05:12
Well, they’re married already.

Andy 05:14
Right, but then to then say, hey, you’re married and can’t live together? That seems like that would cross some kind of boundary?

Larry 05:21
Oh, well, I think generally would if I was not a specific reason in this case. But what what I’m saying without the facts of this case specific, which we didn’t we don’t get into. But without some compelling reason that these two people being together would compromise community safety. I think they would be hard pressed, if this is just a generalized no felon Association, I think just collapse very easily under a challenge. But if they have particularized reasons that they can articulate that build stronger ground?

Andy 05:58
Wouldn’t that be my wife and I were co defendants? I mean, that sounds like that would be particularized reasons of why maybe they are not the best for public safety?

Larry 06:08
Well, it would depend on sometimes you can be co defendants because you have a prosecutor that’s reaching, like with a case of a made off, he could have just the prosecution could just as easily brought his wife into that. Because they’re when you’re whistle one for 3040 years, and they’re running a Ponzi scheme for that long it would be it would be hard to imagine that she didn’t know at least a little bit about it. So they could have made her a co defendant, but they did. So it depends on what was involved in the obviously, the way the prosecution looked at it, she got out a whole lot sooner. So her her involvement was was less substantial than his when she winds up without if she’s out already. And he’s he’s got this spare harsh feature looking at and she’s done. It sounds like her role was less.

Andy 07:04
Yeah, sure. I mean, that if he’s coming home from dinner every night and having and they’re talking over their, their plate of spaghetti of them, of how many people he screwed out of how many millions of dollars and she goes, Oh, that’s nice, honey. Yeah, so they don’t give her nearly as much time as him actually pulling the levers to do the nasty things.

Larry 07:23
Well, that’s that’s what I was having with us. If If, if they guess one thing to be like Sandusky was where his wife didn’t really know, at least the evidence didn’t seem to say that she really knew what they were doing, what he was doing what the boys but she was kind of taken, I don’t want to know attitude. It would be different than if they were collectively identifying the targets and the acquisition of these targets. And some would be very fact specific. If they could preclude them from having relationship, I would say to the best of his ability he needs to, if they impose such a condition on him, he needs to immediately challenge it. He needs to try to find legal resources and try to try to bounce what kind of challenge because that would that would be devastating. I mean, he would be served time in prison and that you come out of the 50 years a big bear, they say, Yep, you’re not going to have this support, either. You know, you’re not gonna have anything to do with.

Andy 08:25
The one of the thing that’s sort of flies under the radar is like they have been together for 50 years, which sort of seems like, like the youngest they could be if they got married at 18, which of course it could have gotten married younger, but that makes them in their 70s. How much bad things in the world are they going to be able to do without? You know, at the age of 75 and 80 years old? They’ve been together for forever? Well, apparently they

Larry 08:47
were able to do some bad things like he’s convicted in Arizona.

Andy 08:51
Yeah, but you know, we don’t know when he got locked up, do we?

Larry 08:54
I could, No, I didn’t. I didn’t want to know for this for and that’s fine. So I try not to get into all the particularities because I’m doing a lot of guessing already of what’s going on.

Andy 09:06
But if they did this, and they got five year sentence, but if they got a 20 year sense, which would also be exorbitant, but anywho not trying to go by he got

Larry 09:14
what he got life to life’s

Andy 09:18
that he’s getting out. All right. Anything else here before we move on? Yeah, I

Larry 09:25
did the best I could with the information I have. But he would need competent legal advice if if they try to impose that on him. But he may just be hearing the rumors about felon Association. And he may have concluded from that, that he wouldn’t be able to have any association because his wife is also a felon. I would not jump to that conclusion until you hear it officially that’s the final remark. I would say don’t assume everything you hear from the prison grapevine is true because it isn’t.

Andy 09:52
And prison being out of prison is like always better than in prison. So get out if you can The other email or letter that we got was I’m serving 25 years at 85%. In Kentucky. Before my arrest, I drove commercial vehicles cross country for 17 years. I know there must be many pfrs that may be in the same boat as I hardest part of time is not knowing what you can and cannot do unreleased. What? Uh, what is that? What? What options may I have to drive truck for employment when released? My crime is not associated with my job or CDL. But will I be allowed by law to drive commercially cross country for employment as a PFR? Thank you very much. And the answer like short is Yes. Shall we move on?

Larry 10:42
Well, the answer that that I’m going to give is slightly different than that of the answer is I don’t have quite enough information. I don’t know if he’s leaving prison as a supervised offender, if that 85% is extinguishing his entire obligation to Kentucky or if he has a period of supervision following him. Without that information, I can’t tell you as much as I would be able to, because if he had extinguished his entire obligation to Kentucky except for registration, then he would be looking at registration obligations, if he, if he thought extinguishes that the society heals Kentucky supervision that changes the the answer. So for those who, who, who were in prison, it would be helpful if we have that information on your question. When when we get a question. If you’re going to be under supervision, if any type when you leave prison, that affects the answer, because we’re dealing with supervising authorities, and registration authorities. If you don’t have any supervision, owing, then you’re only dealing with registration obligations, which are complicated enough in of themselves. But we have two things to think about here. So I don’t know if he’s under supervision. But let’s assume he is. That way, we’ll cover it. So let’s start by the registry. There’s nothing in a state registry. And I didn’t research Kentucky but generally speaking, there’s nothing in the state registry schemes that prohibits a person from being a truck driver, per se. But I don’t know all the nuances of getting a CDL. And if you if you if you’ve already got one, I don’t know if if if it is what conditions would would trigger a revocation or withdrawal of that of that CDL. But there’s nothing in federal or state registry laws that prohibit you from driving commercial vehicles that I’m aware of. So therefore, the answer would be Yeah, yes, you could. As far as the law goes,

Andy 12:47
you’re about to say something just Yeah, I was just gonna say so like a super good friend of mine. He even under an almost positive that he was still on parole in Georgia. And he went to class and got a CDL. Just he was just doing that just as something to keep busy, and then converted over at the place that he works. And he’s kind of like, he’s like a day driver. He never spends the night but he will get a travel permit to he gets a monthly travel permit to go visit the immediate surrounding states. Even and now he’s on probation still does that I know, I know, every state is going to have their own different rules. And even probation, a probation is gonna have different rules. But he does it on supervision. Well, I

Larry 13:25
would say that that, like I say, the Federal the, I’m not aware of anything and federal law, that that would preclude you from driving cross country. Now, there’s the recommendation to the states that have that a person who’s going to be gone from their home more than seven days, seven days or more that that they should file that in advance before leaving. But that’s the recommendation it is not binding, it’s it’s one of those things that they would like you to do to be to be considered and deemed substantially compliant. But if, if Kentucky doesn’t have that in their statutory sex offender registration requirement, then you’re not obligated to do that. Because that’s that’s where you would file your travel plan would be with your local registry office if it was required. But that’s not a prohibition against leaving and being gone from your basis just simply a notification which makes it very difficult if you’re doing if you’re picking up loads and you you need to give seven days notice before I can just imagine having not been in the truck driving business i can i can imagine that they would not be able to wait around for you to decide if you’re going to take that load or not do that haul. And do that runs I would imagine it would make it very difficult for you. But it but it’s not it’s not against the law. But it would certainly encumber you quite a bit if you had to do had to do these itineraries before you left your state as a condition registration. But if you’re under supervision, I will absolutely positively guarantee you but but beyond all doubt if you’re being supervised for sexual offense in my state, you would not be allowed to A commercial vehicle because they would not give you that permission to roam the countryside. So it wouldn’t it wouldn’t happen here. So So what Kentucky will allow him to do as a supervised offender may vary from supervision agency in Kentucky, it may vary from from from for a beach county or each district as you go across the state, but here, it just wouldn’t fly, they would tell you find other jobs what they would do.

Andy 15:29
But you know, and then to be fair, some states have incredibly long supervision periods. And it seems that New Mexico being more strict on the supervision, but it’s not nearly as long, it seems.

Larry 15:41
Well, we have, for a certain list of our sexual offenses, we have indeterminate supervision, it could be five to 20, or five to life. So yes, you could be under supervision. That’s not the entire universe of sex offenses, but it’s a significant number of them. And you could you could be under supervision for for a long period of time, if you don’t get relieved after five years. Now, the lawyers tell the people to induce to plead I were going off onto a tangent here, but the lawyers tell people, you’ll get off after five years, any lawyer that tells that ought to have his license revoked, because that is not necessarily the case, you’re eligible to request relief after five years, but that there’s a significant number, there are a significant number of people who are not granted their relief, and they continue to be supervised after five years. Therefore, it should be a representation that you might get off after five years, but Oh, you’ll be done in five years. That’s just simply not the case.

Andy 16:37
Okay. All right. And then over to the I hate Larry letter. I’ve been reading the darcelle job digest for years and find the information to be helpful. Overall, I would appreciate if you could explain something to me about interstate transfer of probation. I’ve read columns written by Larry and him seems to go out of his way to confuse people. Rather than answering a simple question in terms we can all understand, Larry, we need you to dumb it down, please. I will be leaving prison in 2022. Having served my entire period of incarceration, unfortunately, I have a 10 year period of probation. At the time I was sentenced, I was told I would be required to register here in Minnesota for 10 years. Upon my release, I plan to move to Florida to be with my family and want to know what my obligations will be in Florida. Okay, Larry, in 10 words or less, tell us what the obligations would be in Florida.

Larry 17:34
It would be to do what they tell you.

Andy 17:37
And they can do it until they’re told to stop. Right?

Larry 17:42
So what you said is more or less is what that lesson that words are their obligations are to do what they tell you.

Andy 17:49
And with your expert editing skills, we you kind of decipher it out of the letter. Here are some some points that we can talk around says my caseworker here told me that they may not permit me to leave Minnesota and Florida may not accept me, can they interfere with my right to live where I choose, dammit, I have my constitutional rights, I can pick up and set up tent wherever I want.

Larry 18:11
Well, unfortunately, that’s a mythical right that you have, that you believe you have, while you’re being punished, that does not exist, you you it would be a privilege to be granted to allow you to leave Minnesota, if they so choose to allow you that that privilege, then they can forward your application. But there’s a process of applying to have your supervision be done and carried out under the under the direction of Florida authorities. And they would they would submit that prop that for that application through a process interstate compact for adult offender supervision. But you don’t have a right to leave Minnesota while you’re serving your time while you’re doing you’re paying your debt to society. Therefore, that that’s an imaginary right that you don’t have. Now, I would say that if you have a better support system in Florida, that you haven’t been a soda, perhaps it would be the best better interest of society at large, that you’d be allowed to be where your support is. But that’s taking out the collective good into account rather than the individual good. And society would probably be better off. But arguably if you are if you’re living more you have more support than you would have if you have no support in Minnesota, but that is not a right so so the answer is can they stop you from living where you choose? While you’re being punished? They absolutely can stop you from living where you choose. They can even stop you from living where you choose a Minnesota

Andy 19:43
definitely and I you know you don’t have the question. Let’s sit here and maybe we will cover kind of on the on the back end of it. But where do you think would be a better place to live Minnesota or Florida just as far as PFR rules go?

Larry 19:57
Well, if you if you took out the support structure say well We don’t know it. And I’m not criticizing the questions because they don’t know what we really want to know. What we don’t know, is if he got picked up on some Internet of Things, and he has no connections to Minnesota whatsoever, and therefore, he would be lost if he has to serve his supervision in Minnesota, not knowing that it makes it more difficult. But but he’s he’s, if he’s if he if all things were equal, without that consideration, I would, I would tell you emphatically even with the harsh winters and Minnesota, you would be better off if you could find a way to stay in Minnesota versus go into Florida. Florida has far more horror, harsh conditions they impose locally. And they have they are, they’re prone to impose conditions on you that are not in your, in your, what you expected for your supervision in Minnesota. So that that is my choice would be if I could tolerate the winters that I could support myself I would I would stay in Minnesota if I had the choice between that in Florida.

Andy 21:07
As far as states go, it’s pretty close to the worstest. ish.

Larry 21:12
I gotta see how the other trends translation. Could you pronounce that one more time for the for the transcriber.

Andy 21:20
worstest? Or ish,

Larry 21:22
Lee? Alrighty. We’ll see how that can be

Andy 21:25
changed it, but that’s fine. Okay, and will I have to serve the full 10 years of probation? Or can it be less? That’s got to be that’s got to be a yes. But that’s just if they want to?

Larry 21:36
Yeah, and this is a great question, because most most states do have a process by which probation can be ended early. And we’re taking it at face value that he’s talking about probation and parole, but probation usually can be less than the by an order of the court. It can be modified to a lesser time. But what what he may be thinking is whether he can file something in Florida do that? And the answer would be no, if he successfully goes to Florida, any modification of that term of probation will have to be done by the court in Minnesota that imposed it, Florida cannot reduce that term of probation, and no other state can so that the state that it poses to supervision is the only state that can change the duration of the supervision. So it could be less if Minnesota has a process, and they probably do. But it would have to be a petition filed in the Court in Minnesota and they would have to grant that petition.

Andy 22:41
And then Oh, boy, I can just hear all of chat saying this when I asked this question, they’re gonna say it in unison says How long will I have to register in Florida 123.

Larry 22:51
Forever. Well, and see there there is for the 10 years of Minnesota that that he was told at the time, and I didn’t do a lot of research to know if it’s still the case of Minnesota 10 years added, based at the time of the of the day admonish enterprise them have a 10 year obligation. But that was only if he’s registering in Minnesota. Because as I say, so many times that I get at least one email every time I say this registration as a civil regulatory scheme. That’s not a part of your punishment. It would be like the vehicle registration analogy that people have heard so many times. So if he keeps his vessel big, the vessel is himself in Minnesota, he will his vessel will register pursuant to Minnesota law. If he removes that vessel from Minnesota, and takes that vessel to Florida, the vessel being himself, he will have to comply with the duration of Florida registration requirements and the frequency and all the obligations in terms of what Florida requires registrants to do. So I could assure you that he would be far better off under the last time I looked at Minnesota law, if he stayed at Minnesota for registration purposes, but Florida will be in control of that, because that is the civil regulatory component. That’s not his punishment.

Andy 24:15
Gotcha. And then finally, what you sort of cover part of it, but can Florida change my conditions of probation and impose any fines and costs on me that were not imposed in Minnesota?

Larry 24:26
Well, I should have made that two questions because it is two separate issues. They are actually three issues. CAD CAD they oppose any conditions

Andy 24:38
the conditions, yes. I don’t think they can impose fines there Can they

Larry 24:42
they cannot impose fines, but they can impose costs. So so like a probation fee or something that short supervision fees or anything related to if he has to do treatment in Florida, they would they would have to pay those those costs. And I can just I guarantee you You’d like to be treatment of Florida because the treatment industrial complex doesn’t doesn’t take kindly to people that are not in treatment. But can they change my conditions of probation? Well, I’ll try to be clear. Those conditions that Minnesota impose they follow you. So the the originating states conditions follow you. Can they impose additional conditions? Yes. The treaty between the states, which is the interstate compact, an agreement between states, it’s called a compact, the interstate compact gives the states that prerogative, and when you file your application, you will sign a document saying that you agree, if you’re given the privilege to move to Florida, that you will abide by any additional special conditions, as they call them, that they impose on you. And the receiving state being Florida in this case, they will be able to put conditions consistent with how they supervise people with a summer offense. So therefore, if Minnesota wouldn’t have had a curfew, and Florida does have curfews for similarly convicted people, our curfew will attach to you in Florida. Even though you didn’t have one in Minnesota, Hank says he’s ever been in supervision, we don’t know what all these conditions would be because he never got to sign though never will get to sign those those papers, if he goes straight from prison to Florida, but, but the conditions of probation can be altered. But remember, your your originating conditions follow you, you don’t get to escape those. So if you’re in a harsh state, and they put a bunch of conditions on you, those go with you. And less they’re not enforceable by law in that state. And there would be some things or by by I think I’ve given this example, before technology, the early days of GPS monitoring states didn’t have all states didn’t have GPS monitoring. So you’d have a state that was there was in the early days of the tech revolution using GPS, they were sending people to states where they didn’t have GPS monitoring. And the the sending state would have to have to remove that condition, or they would decline that supervision, they would say we can’t enforce that condition here. We don’t have that technology. And you either remove it or we can’t take your offender. And and if there’s been a court ruling saying that there’s something that’s not enforceable, that a residency restriction like the you’re the judge might have said in the condition in your sentence that you can’t be within 1000 feet of of a list of things. If there’s an adverse court decision on that state saying that, that that those conditions that those were unconstitutional, they would, they would notify the surrounding states that we cannot enforce this. And then the sending state has to either remove those conditions or you don’t go, but but the conditions never get less when you when you transfer because the original conditions go with you. Now, when I say that they never get less realistically, often they do. Because you get you go from a really harsh state, to a state that takes a more pragmatic, reasonable approach. Even though those conditions are on your order. They don’t rigorously enforce them. They say, that’s crazy, we’re not gonna do that. And they gave you a little bit of slack. But but but as far as officially those conditionals go with you,

Andy 28:08
they cannot be hard for a supervising officer to like, have this like, Okay, well, here’s my boilerplate one, and I have 100 people like this, and then I have these 10 ones that I have to apply these special rules to, that would be very challenging for them to keep up with to so they would just sort of try to average it out and figure out where you can just fit in as much as possible without any extra stuff.

Larry 28:27
That is correct. And when when they get to know you and you’re and you’re deemed compliant, generally states relaxed conditions anyway, as you go through a period of continuous compliance, you get more and more freedom from the posts. That even happens here, you get you get a little bit less or frequency on your, on your home visits that on your in office visits, which are well have been greatly reduced because of the pandemic. But they can they impose any fines, absolutely not the state to the state to convicted you find you if there were any fines, they cannot impose any restitution on you, per se. So if they find something you did particularly offensive, and it’s your harm to the victim, and there should have been a huge restitution order. They can’t do that. That’s all in the jurisdiction of the of the convicting state. So fines and restitution, they can’t do that. But they can impose supervision costs. If that state has a monthly supervision fee. They can impose that fee on you and they likely will do that.

Andy 29:34
And just to like make some clarity, so you got sentenced to 10 years, whatever, I don’t care and but they also sentence to you too, I don’t know some sort of $25,000 fine, and you’ve dealt with that. Then you transfer to another state. They can’t say oh well you owe us another 10 grand, that would be a sign and they cannot do that that would be like them extending your sentence past the the your original contract with the state from your original sentence.

Larry 30:00
Correct now that they can monitor the collection of that fine, and they will do that, if you have, if you have a fine schedule, you know that paper schedule that will set up for you and you’re supposed to pay $100 a month and fine. And you don’t pay that you don’t usually pay it to the state that’s supervising you make arrangements to remit that to the state where the fine is owed. And, and if you get out of compliance with that, they’ll they’ll notify the state and it could it could form the basis for a revocation but, but to find it, it’s not collected. And not it doesn’t benefit the state that supervisee that’s not their money, the restitution is not their money. That that that that’s something that that they they act as an agent. And they may say you read a rainbow check stub saying you’ve paid this $55 a month, each month that you’ve sent this to the authorities of Minnesota. And if you can’t produce that documentation, they’ll notify Minnesota that you did that you didn’t pay your fine, because that forms the basis for a revocation. And believe it or not, they want to get rid of you. It’s not a it’s not anything personal. But they do want to get rid of you. Because each one of you that they get rid of relicense their risk of something happening that they have to stand before the camera and explain. So if they can, if they can, some officers are far more zealous than others, we’ve got a person here that makes his his his mission to figure out a way to dump everybody back to the sending state, but to some degree, they would be happy to get rid of you. And it’s not personal. It really is it is just it’s just a statistical thing. If you’ve got 100 people you can dump out of your state, their sub level recidivism that with those when you dump them.

Andy 31:46
Okay, anything else before we leave this one behind?

Larry 31:49
Well, I figured you would have a whole lot of new questions to add, because this is one thing, one thing that you really like to talk about.

Andy 31:56
The the one question that I always end up getting tripped up over is if you’re transferring your probation, and you have you have the state level type of statute, so Georgia State level would be like the living restrictions, thousand foot kind of deal. But then for your probation supervision, there’s the stupidest one on there, it says that you will not drive your car alone ever. Which one of those two things would follow me? Does the to the state ones drop off? Or do the supervision ones drop off moving to another state?

Larry 32:32
Well, they the the, the proximity restriction you’re talking about that’s at the state of Georgia registry law, that that that has nothing to do with you when you go when you leave Georgia. The registration requirement of Georgia is called

Andy 32:46
your own, the only thing that would then carry over is going to be the supervision rules. And I don’t want to go back over whether they will adhere to them or not in the receiving state, we’ll just assume for the sake argument that they do.

Larry 32:59
Well, well, that one would be one where I would think that a rational PL would look at that and say that’s not enforceable. But now we’re we can’t presume they’re all rational. And therefore, therefore, I would like to see someone challenge that in Georgia and have that have that stricken because it’s it’s it’s really, really crappy language. Ridiculous, it’s

Andy 33:20
kind of an impossibility to be honest with you. And it is being challenged. That’s just like the that’s on the forefront of my brain because that is going to be challenged, that the group in Georgia is working on that as we speak. But that just like that one is over the top kind of like scratching your head going to hell were they thinking when they made that rule, you can’t drive alone ever. Your probation officer says, Hey, I need you to come into the office. Sorry, I can’t get there. My mom is at work, and she can’t ride with me.

Larry 33:45
So that’s ridiculous. We’ll get her the best way you can take take take Marta.

Andy 33:50
I know. And then and then they would say, Well, if you can’t get here, then maybe we’ll come get you with a little paddy wagon, and we’ll put you in some cuffs and we’ll send you somewhere where we can always get in touch with you.

Larry 33:58
Oh, that’s what I would say. That’s exactly what it looks like.

Andy 34:03
But so I use that, you know, I’m using like an extreme example. So like, the driving restriction thing would follow you again, I don’t care what like they’re not going to follow that one on the receiving end, but it would go with you. They would be

Larry 34:15
it would be on the list of things that appeal would have when they did their initial intake with you. And they would say these are your conditions so they would roll their eyes after an irrational state. And and they would even even in my state as horrible as well on supervision. I think they would still roll their eyes here because because that was just an impossible thing. But But, but they would look at that and say it’s kind of not practical that I would I would consider a typo. I would say there’s there’s no way that anybody would put this on paper.

Andy 34:47
And then the other side of the thousand foot thing if you move to a state that didn’t have any sort of lawsuit if you move to Florida where they have, you know, if you move to like I guess it’s like Dade County where it’s like 2500 foot restriction 2500

Larry 34:58
you would have you would You would end up going from bad to worse.

Andy 35:02
Yeah, yeah. And and in in reverse. If you went from the Florida State with 2500, or in not all Florida is that way, but then you move to Georgia, then you would actually be gaining because you would, uh, you would go from having a harder restriction down to 1000 feet. So you’d be like, yeah, I can live more places

Larry 35:20
for registration purposes. But now, if there was a specific order in your condition and your probation sometimes, sometimes because of the uniqueness of your offense, the judge will tighten the limitations further before you can and can’t be the condition of supervision. But But if that becomes

Andy 35:37
part of your contract, that becomes part of like the statutes that you must follow. These aren’t optional things. This is almost like the state law now says that you have these extra restrictions?

Larry 35:47
Well, it would pay would be not real estate law. But it’s, it’s, it’s a condition that carries the potential of, of, of a sanction if you don’t comply with it. So so so if you if you’re told that you did, you can’t be in an establishment that serves alcohol, even though alcohol is legal. And you patronize the establishment that serves alcohol that could result in serious, serious consequences to you, because that was the condition. Generally, our state takes the attitude that you should nobody under supervision should ever be in a bar. I think that’s ridiculous. But that’s the way it is. But but but in some cases, it may be unique to your offense for the judge may even before he ever gets to probation, I’m giving you five years probation, and you will not patronize any place, that’s primary businesses to serve alcohol. And you know, there’s restaurants where you would that you would be able to eat because a lot of places where you have casual dining where they serve alcohol, but if it’s their primary purpose, you can’t, you can’t you can’t go,

Andy 36:51
I’m gonna restrict you from going to Applebee’s, it’s going to restrict you from going to DJs Bar and Grill perhaps,

Larry 36:56
perhaps, but But uh, so you got to be careful for that condition comes from if it’s Georgia’s registry law that doesn’t go with you. But if it’s like a specific condition of your supervision, that was that was put into a document that you signed, that it becomes becomes more enforceable to the other state. But the other state may not be able to enforce it, because they may have a court case that says we can’t restrict where people live. And, and they may say, we can’t enforce it, and they would tell Georgia, sorry, we’re not going to enforce that.

Andy 37:26
And then Georgia could say, well, sorry, you’re not moving there, we’re not gonna approve this whole transfer,

Larry 37:30
that is exactly what they could do. I would not do that. Because, again, statistically, your folks, I don’t mean to sound harsh about this. But you’re playing a numbers game with this. And since the public, the public backlash is so high, is so shrill, and something goes wrong, you want to get rid of just as many as you can. And you want to keep out just as many as you can. So therefore, you would want the person to transfer, and you would want as many as possible to transfer out as you could possibly get out of your state. Because that reduces the liability to you. And you would want to keep out as many as you possibly can from coming into your state. That’s just the reality of arithmetic. I mean, I know, people roll their eyes when I say that, but that’s just the reality of the math.

Andy 38:22
The only other thing that I think we should probably dig around just for a few minutes, and I believe that you have a little bit of experience with interstate compact stuff about the actual process of transferring, how long does it take? What sort of process does it go through, I think you have a little bit of expertise in this area, I do it

Larry 38:37
the states are allowed 45 days to respond to an application. And some states charge a fee to submit to another state and I didn’t check that either. We’ve gone through that list. And I could if that’s if that’s necessary information, I should put that into the next interstate compact question. But the application could cost you anywhere from 50 to like $200 to try to get approval to another state. And they have 45 days to investigate to propose residents and people are going to be living with and respond back to the, to the request from the status of the application saying we will take that offender we will approve this residential planner we will not and so you’re looking at a month and a half.

Andy 39:23
And you could I know from trying to do this, that you need to have an address on the other side before you start the process. And, you know, you have to pre plan like you know, somebody’s living their expense. You know, someone looks like they’re living there. So that when they do go visit, you’re gonna meet the different requirements, like it’s not an easy thing to go through and then they can just turn around and go, Nope, sorry. And you’re kicked to the curb and you’re just done. So if this person is trying to move to Florida where they at least have the thousand foot and for you know, heaven forbid that he’s actually in a in an area where they have the 25 hundred hundred foot. I don’t know if Minnesota has as a living restrictions, but you could be 2500 feet, man, there’s no place it’s going to not be within 2500 feet, church, school playground, daycare, those kind of things. Your everyone is going to live within 2500 you know radius of that kind of property, school easy.

Larry 40:20
They will in that particular county, Miami Dade that does really render the bulk of the county off limits to people that are on the registry. They get slivers of industrial zones, where their houses are, then there’s there’s places that bridges under bridges, but it really makes it difficult.

Andy 40:39
All right, let’s move on. You ready for that? Moving on?

Larry 40:43
Let’s do it.

Andy 40:45
Okay, and we were gonna play a super patron Mike sent in a voicemail, and it was pretty long. And I think we can summarize it talking about, you know, Larry says on the podcast frequently about putting that hand on that Babel. And this is if you were of a different faith or a non faith, could you have questions we’re about? It would mean nothing to me as a non believer person to put my hand on the Bible and swear to something that I do not believe in. Don’t send me hate mail for not believing what you believe that’s not what this is about. But it the book doesn’t mean anything to me.

Larry 41:26
So would I be able to request some sort of alternate Bible for a non believer type, and that could then apply to Muslims or Buddhists or Hindus? Can they can they put their hand on their text of choice to, you know, uphold the law and truth and all that stuff. And most instances, they can they, they swear or affirm under penalty of perjury, and the Bible has become less of something that you put your hand on. And I do that a little tongue in cheek when I do that hand on the Bible. Part of what we do here is try to make people laugh and giggle a little bit. And when I do that, I’m kind of poking fun at folks who he could just as easily say, and this was poking fun. I think most recently, Sheriff long in Bucks County, Georgia, that said that he was gonna do his job because he put his hand on the Bible. And he could just as easily say, I took an oath of office. And then I believe that I’m carrying out the duties of that office, but he paid but he interjects the religion in it. And I have a little bit of a problem with people who do that, because frequently my life experience has shown me that when they have to wear their religion on their sleeve, or their patriotism would be another example when they talk about how patriotic they are. Sometimes you would dig a little deeper, you see their Patriot, patriotism is very shallow. And I wish that he would just not bring the Bible into it when he says I’m doing my job because I put my hand on the Bible. And that that’s what I’m doing. But lots of times when I say that, I’ve never actually heard the people the person say it. In the case of Sheriff log, I think I did hear him say in one of the news clips, that saw poke fun of the people who say that, and I put a little emphasis on the Bible. But but it’s really because I don’t think that it’s really appropriate for the say that it’s because of the Bible, you’re doing this, the Bible, to the extent that I understand it, preaches a lot of forgiveness, and redemption. And it doesn’t sound like to me that Sheriff long has got that message. He’s he’s not he’s not practicing what I understand the Bible, as I understand it anyway.

Andy 43:34
For some clarity, super patron, Mike in Florida is an incredibly forgiving, generous human being. And we speak frequently, and conversations of religion come up between us quite regularly. Again, I know that this isn’t a podcast about that. But this is a podcast about the criminal justice system, specifically pefr kind of issues, and how overwhelmingly burdensome the disabilities and restraints to use your terms how much that imposes a problem for our people and us be the people that are putting their hand on the Bible. If If you believe the words in the text of being a forgiving kind of person, we are in the exact opposite direction of that. And so yeah, I totally understand later that you are poking fun when you say that’s to me, that’s all you’re doing by and it may be perhaps offensive to some. And I would probably understand why they might find that offensive. But I wouldn’t tell you to stop because I don’t I know that you’re just being funny about it.

Larry 44:33
Well, that is that is true, but I have to be sensitive to that to that. But he he has to also understand that. I would hope that he calls out these people from time to time and challenges them on their intellectual honesty. If you’re gonna bring the Bible into the conversation, profess all these beliefs, he needs to he needs to call them out and say, well, let’s be make sure we’re practicing this because if you’re going to tell me that I need to live my life. And you’re going to preach to me, then I think I get to challenge you a little bit in return. And that is the deprivation of food assistance by what was the guy’s name in Louisiana, that we’ve talked about the senator, that that’s no longer in the Senate. I can’t believe that anybody that would profess to be a Christian would deny food and nutrition assistance to someone because of a mistake that they’ve made in their life. Yep. And I’m okay. So I want you to call those people out when they when they if they’re gonna bring the Bible into it when Sheriff law brings the Bible into it. I’d like acquaints as a sheriff law to say that to question him say, well, Sheriff, isn’t it true? Some of these people did these crimes decades ago, and they’ve paid their debt to society? Isn’t it time we let them move on with their life? Isn’t that what the Bible is all about? Call him out on that remind him of what the Bible actually does stand for.

Andy 46:05
I agree. Ready to be a part of registry matters, get links at registry If you need to be discreet about it, contact them by email registry matters. You can call or text a ransom message 274722744771 a support registry matters on a monthly basis, head to slash registry matters. Not ready to become a patron, give a five star review at Apple podcasts or Stitcher or tell your buddies at your treatment class about the podcast. We want to send out a big heartfelt support for those on the registry. Keep fighting. Without you, we can’t succeed. You make it possible. All right, we should then move on. And you said this one was going to be quick. But this first one comes from the Marshall project, should prisoners have to pay for medical care during a pandemic. Larry, this one always kind of conflicts me because you will end up with I think the term is super utilizers. If you don’t charge them some kind of copay, then they’re going to use go into medical call as as a farce to get a dorm to go walk around go, you know, do things that if you hit them with a some kind of charge, then they won’t go do that. But how should that be different during a pandemic?

Larry 47:30
Well, I would think it would be different because we would want as much medical attention as possible. So we can isolate it and try to prevent change of transmission transmission from affected individuals. If you’re going to have to pay a fee to find out if you’re infected. That’s one component of it that if you’re going to be punished harshly for having the the virus, it seems like to me that we would we would increase the odds of transmission because no one would want to be tested, right?

Andy 47:58

Larry 48:00
Whether that would not be good for the institution’s residents or its staff, would it?

Andy 48:05
No, not at all.

Larry 48:06
So I think that we ought to take that into consideration. And I and I understand your point, the about the overutilization. There was a deputy ID with Clayton County, Georgia 40 years ago, that he was so the county jail held held approximately 100 inmates at that time and and he would pull sick call meeting have people get out of their cells and go just delight up to see the doctor. And you have 100 people in jail. He’d look at the list. It’s like we got 31 people on sick call today. right he would find it very frustrated. He couldn’t figure how 31 people could be sick. You know, at the end he thought he thought it was a farce. So so they had they had these telephone booths. Now those are either that are younger, you may not be able to relate to a telephone booth. But there was there were they were they were booths that people would actually go into to use a phone and jails had had had telephone rooms where there’d be a wall of phones and there would be a larger room but that but they would put they would let people go make calls and the telephone room. Make use of the old fashioned pay telephones and he would put people when he had a large number of sick calls he would put them in the phone booth and they would be literally squeezed like sardines standing in the in the in the area. And you’d be amazed how many people when Bros. His name was deputy rows when deputy Rose was on duty. They magically removed their name from sick call. Because they do his going to pray. He was going to pull up two hours before sick call and have them stand in a cramped phone booth for two hours to see the doctor. Now, not just for the icing on the cake in the story, his wife shot him

Andy 49:53
poetic justice.

Larry 49:55
The rumor was that he was abusive and he ultimately got shot. And I have no way of independently verifying if she was if she was being truthful, but by very like recollection is that she was convicted, or even acute charge with with his device, but he was apparently a kind of a harsh guy to deal with.

Andy 50:20
Okay, now, so and Carl and Chad says maybe we should just not charge them for COVID-19 related things. I mean, I guess that’s fair. But you wouldn’t know when you say I have lost my sense of taste. And I have 112 fever, that it is COVID related.

Larry 50:34
I wouldn’t think you would know that. Thankfully, I don’t think I’ve had it yet. If I if I have I’m not aware of it in symptoms. But I would, I would think that that you wouldn’t know until you did the test. If they were if they were ill, because some of the symptoms are very similar to other influence type, we wouldn’t know, would we?

Andy 50:52
I don’t, I don’t know. You’re not going to know off the bat other than knowing that you have XYZ symptoms, and they’re similar to flu like symptoms. And then you go get tested and you test positive for like, yeah, you would know going in, I guess they you know, they charge you up front, and then give you a refund on the back. The prison system is really good with accounting, especially when it’s not in your favor.

Larry 51:14
I’ve noticed that with the deuce letter publication, they seem to they seem to be very good with accounting we get we get list of everything down to the penny.

Andy 51:23
Yes. Okay. And then we will move on to a couple companion articles. This one’s from Kay QED criminal justice reform as cluck big wins in the California what they do in Cali man?

Larry 51:36
Well, they didn’t understand everything. But it’s one The good thing. The law enforcement apparatus had had a movement on the ballot, it went down to a crushing defeat. And that’s, that’s always amazing when you can when you can overcome the scare tactics that they use, and actually have the public vote down in this article said that they that the citizens were smarter to see right through it. And so that that’s fantastic.

Andy 52:05
We talked about this ballot initiative that they do have in California, this allows for something close to true democracy where they put you know, the know, the felony jaywalking on the ballot and the the people vote for it. It’s not representative, it’s where you get to vote for this to be up or down. And I guess kind of like the Florida Fourth Amendment thing that they voted for to let felons vote again, that they did an 18 this so the citizens of California said, we don’t want all this big, bad prison stuff.

Larry 52:35
So well, the the proposition 20 is the one that went down. And that was, it would have made it easier to put some people in jail for theft, while making it harder for thousands of state prisoners to qualify for parole consideration. And it wasn’t even close. According to Kate Chatfield, policy director at the pro reform justice collaborative. It is at that, like say what you could beat the law enforcement apparatus that is just fantastic. And fishy

Andy 53:04
run some really harsh advertisement saying that these terrible things and the people are going to be breaking into your house, and they’re going to be robbing and stealing and billing pillaging and all that.

Larry 53:12
Yep. And it only wanted eight of 58 counties that said the proposition 20 lost and 50 of the state’s 58 counties. So including sub reliably Republican base use the term red ones, but I don’t really like that red and blue legs much. But I would say the more the more conservative counties that still lost it. That’s a good thing. Sure.

Andy 53:35
And there’s a companion article from the nation titled California chooses criminal justice reform.

Unknown Speaker 53:41
Well, cool.

Andy 53:41
You gotta love that. I’m pretty sure that’s a blue state. They’re pretty pretty heavily blue.

Larry 53:46
Well, it is. But that’s why that’s why you shouldn’t move there. Because even though they’re doing the right on the criminal justice, you got to look at the bigger picture and you got to look at more important issues. And not

Andy 53:57
just some single issue thing

Larry 53:58
now. Right, right. You got it. You got to look at that. And that’s what they tell me. Yeah. But we we we don’t look at the big picture. They they think that only they look at the big picture.

Andy 54:08
Raiders fan and chat says I think it makes sense. Once you walk out of the walls of the facility, you get your right to vote back, which not all state we there’s one state that’s still holding out that you have no chance or did that one get removed with Florida. I can’t remember if that was the final holdout or is there another one that you think there

Larry 54:27
might be one more thing? I think it might be Nebraska? Sure. Yeah, thanks.

Andy 54:32
But all the other states at least have some sort of path. And some states like you know, the Vermont’s you can still vote while you’re incarcerated. And then other places just varying degrees where you’ll automatically get it back when you’re finished with your your supervision someplace you have to petition

Larry 54:48
for and theoretically, theoretically, while you’re awaiting trial, and you’re not a convicted felon, the hundreds of thousands of people that are sitting in jail theoretically can could vote. Now no one ever does because they don’t say polling places in most correctional facilities. I think there’s one or two of the large ones, I think we talked about Cook County in Chicago that was setting up a polling place. But most people don’t know. And then trying to make arrangements to apply for an absentee ballot is difficult when you’re trying to use, I mean, try to get the county clerk on your phone list. So you can make a phone call to the county clerk, they request an absentee ballot application and give them the ballot to the jail. So you can mail that application back. So you can receive the ballot vote, try doing all that from from a county jail, tell me how that goes for you.

Andy 55:33
Along with all of your other words, you’re probably not going to be worried about voting that much

Larry 55:37
either. So so so hundreds of thousands of people that are pre trial are disenfranchised, that are by law, permitted to vote but they’re there, the practical batteries, they’re not allowed to vote.

Andy 55:50
And okay, so moving over to an article that is incredibly long from courthouse news, after 36 years and experiment in private prisons comes to an end in Tennessee, lay I really dislike private prisons a lot, I think that it is, if there is something that corporations are going to do poorly when dealing with human beings, prison is that where they’re going to optimize themselves for profit, which of course, that’s what a company should be doing. I accept that part. But when dealing with people that have no resources, very limited resources, everything can go to poop in a handbasket while they’re taking care of human beings, and you know, there’s mold on the walls or food gets shorted and your healthcare gets shorted. So I’m very happy to see them shutting this down, at least in one state or in one county.

Larry 56:43
Well, but but say, you know, that would that would be your reaction if you didn’t read the article. But it’s actually in this particular case, is the is the core civic, the prison operator who’s pulling the plug, they’re pulling the plug, because

Andy 56:58
good, they want to have that they want to force them to make upgrades and changes.

Larry 57:02
Yeah, I was gonna say they they’ve milked this for for 3036 years. And now there’s a significant amount of deferred maintenance. And there’s a discussion about who should be responsible for that. And also due to efforts to, to contain the pandemic, the population numbers have dropped it at the facility, this is called silver delvin. It’s at Chattanooga, and they are able to consolidate these, they’re gonna consolidate the silverdale with their downtown jail, they’re gonna operate just just one facility with the county takes it over. But they pulled out after they had been running it for three and a half decades. And and now now the debate is about all the different badness. But you don’t think candy a private company would try to maximize profits that extend a providing good quality services, do you? They,

Andy 57:52
they absolutely 100% No, 100%? No,

Larry 57:56
no, they, you? That’d be I can’t believe that you would even suggest or imply that. Private companies would never never do such a thing. They’re all about the interest of society. profits have nothing to do with it.

Andy 58:16
I don’t know, I don’t necessarily even begrudge a company for having that moment. I know you’re playing fun, but I just like their interest isn’t to return profits to the shareholders. Like Okay, so if they can, you know, pinch a penny here, they can reduce some HR costs there, they can then treat the PFR the inmates worse. Like, I mean, it seems like that’s what they would do. That’s what we want corporations to because they can run things more efficiently than the government can every day of the week. Right, Paul?

Larry 58:44
Of course,

Andy 58:44
I can chat. I know, I know. He’s gonna like blow a gasket by me saying that because he thinks corporations should do everything.

Larry 58:51
Well, well, that’s it’s one of those things where the company pulled out. I don’t think I don’t think we can, we can see a trend for it. But the trend might develop with this. Do presidential administration, because the previous administration had announced an intent to end contracts on the federal level with private operators, and that was reversed by the Trump administration. Now, when the Trump administration, if it does leave, I mean, this is all up in the air because the election is still being decided. And I don’t want to do any pontification about anything related to the election. But if there is a new administration on January 20, that could be a policy that they could reverse back to what it would what they had had previously in the Obama Biden administration, which was to decrease the reliance on private prisons. But in this particular instance, it wasn’t a governmental decision. It was the it was the the the operators decision, but they didn’t want to be there any longer because the revenues had declined precipitously with the population decline and the deferred maintenance and it’s just not a profitable endeavor for them any longer.

Andy 1:00:01
It’s almost like you get a loan and there’s a balloon payment. So you just you just pay a low amount for the first 10 or 20 years, and then all of a sudden, there’s this big fat payment and like, oh, wow, man, nevermind, we don’t want that anymore. So they milked all that, or maybe even like a hedge fund where they go, and they just milk all of the money out of the thing. And then they dump it

Larry 1:00:18
so well, that been in this business for as long as I have. It’s rare that I encounter someone who prefers a private prison. I think I’ve run into a handful got a couple three. And usually it has to do with commissary they have they they maximize profits by having greater options of commissary. But as far as programming, and staff competency, and the other thing is air conditioning, a lot of the private facilities are air conditioned, you have the state systems like in Texas where I go and provide those people in a rare condition. They’re not here, this ain’t the holiday here, for God’s sakes, Florida does the same thing. And they they profit companies. I’ve had compliments about the ventilation being better and and and the commissary options, but in terms of programming, I don’t think I’ve ever had anybody tell me that they were that they were enamored by the programming of a private private prison operator.

Andy 1:01:13
Private private in Georgia is in my experience better than state by a longshot on all avenues

Larry 1:01:19
of programming on on.

Andy 1:01:22
Yes. So you asked us and stuff like that? Yes.

Larry 1:01:25
So well done. I have heard so Wednesday, it was your the first. So

Andy 1:01:30
they kept the place air conditioned to 50 degrees to keep you very docile and like frozen and covered up by a blanket all day. Food was better, and you know, electrical classes, CDL class, all that stuff. They didn’t have a any of that stuff at state level stuff.

Larry 1:01:44
Well, aren’t you contradicting yourself? If you’re saying that the private prisons were better? And you’re saying that you disagree with private prison systems? that’s somewhat of a contradiction,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:53

Andy 1:01:55
guess but no, because I think that if I didn’t say that they had those programs. But I know that they’re doing that because they then get money from the state and federal government for having the program’s they’re not doing it because they think that you need to have these things so you can be better on the other side of it. They’re doing it all based on a revenue model where they Hey, we have more stuff for the commissary, that means we can make more money. Were you buying your pseudonyms and weighing lambs?

Larry 1:02:19
Well, I said that about the commissary, but I was asking you about programming. Did they have better quality staff at staffing? Do they have they have more case management? They have more educational?

Andy 1:02:28
Well, you mean that stuff? They have more educational stuff? I don’t know about case managers? And none of that. I don’t know if they did any of that stuff, but then more classes that you could take.

Larry 1:02:37
So well then like say you should be a big proponent of private prisons.

Andy 1:02:41
Negative ghostrider not happening? No, I don’t, because of what the model is, they should put those programs in on on all of them as far as getting people prepared to get out. And that should be under the burden of the citizens to make sure that that bill gets footed because 95% or more of these people are going to get out and we don’t want them to go back. That’s not a sustainable model either.

Larry 1:03:04
So well, Alrighty, then.

Andy 1:03:08
That’s my take. And then we have an article from sea coast online, Maine officials proposed a doubling budget for agency charged with defending the poor. Is this an article that’s talking something about public defender kind of people in the state of Maine?

Larry 1:03:25
Yes, and I can’t believe that. I mean, we tried that here a few years ago, because the public defender offices had been so starved for funding because of our years after the Oh 809 recession, that we basically live 10 years with without any, any revenue increases, and things flatline. And so when things started picking up, we asked for more money for the public defender and try to double it backwards. They didn’t do that. But but you got to start somewhere. So if if things have been, if things have been underfunded for that long, you asked for a significant increase that you hope you hope for the best, but with this pandemic, it’s gonna be it’s gonna be amazing to me if they can come in, even with an increase because most state revenue projections are according to the National Conference of state legislatures. They’re all seeing declines at their revenue outlook. So I don’t know how you could I don’t know how you could do this.

Andy 1:04:21
Huh? Um, I mean, does that mean that the citizens just have to up their tax bill to cover it, they they’re, they were upping the amount of money. Something that stuck out to me, Larry, is that the last increase they got for the attorney, so they outsource this to they don’t have public defenders, they outsource it to private attorneys, and they got a raise of $5 an hour in 2015 to bring them to 60 bucks an hour, which is maybe a third or so what an attorney normally makes. So here they’re going to up it to 100 bucks an hour, which is the now you’re only talking about half or you know something like a third of what they would do.

Larry 1:04:58
So but but that’s That’s funny, but that’s a dramatic improvement and like they hope it goes through. But for the revenue is as bleak as the outlooks are. It I don’t know, what means revenue model looks like in terms of in terms of where the bulk of their money comes from yars is severely significantly impacted by energy. But if that’s a tourist state, I can imagine that that revenue stream would be off, wouldn’t you think?

Andy 1:05:26
Sure, sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Larry 1:05:29
If, if their unemployment rate is high, I would imagine their state income tax would be down. So so when you when you’re trying to divvy up the revenue, because we could never increase taxes? I mean, that would be the end of all life as we know it. If we increase in taxes all life, yes, the whole everything would cease to exist if taxes went up. But when you when you’re looking at when you’re looking at trying to divvy up a small revenue pot, defending people accused of crimes is just not very popular. When you go out into the general audience of a town hall meeting and say, I tell you what I want to do. I want to make sure that we have ample and adequate representation for the people accused of crimes. It Can I see a show of hands up how many people support male distance, see how many hands go up.

Andy 1:06:14
I was waiting for you to throw in a Bible in there. It just I heard that the twain coming in. I was expecting.

Larry 1:06:21
Better do that.

Andy 1:06:23
Right. And then moving on to another article. Oh, this one’s great. This one’s from the shadow proof. Oh, this article is written by Steve Yoder. And he has been a presenter at a guess it was like the 15 or 16 Atlanta conference, it was the first one that Dr. Saul did here. Really great writer about things. And this is one of those articles that we cover from time to time where the PFR compliance group, the sheriff’s office and whatnot, they go around and do all kinds of checking in to make sure that you’re living where you said you’re supposed to be living. And are you living with the people you said you’re living with? Is your car registered the right way? Are you home by curfew? And they go round up a bunch of people for almost like just like paperwork crimes. And it’s an incredibly long article. But he he’s a very, very excellent writer, and like that he puts these things out from time to time.

Larry 1:07:16
Well, it’s what I took from it as he pay talks about how that, that that these 10 Most Wanted, they don’t seem to have any methodology of how they pick the 10. Most Wanted in Oklahoma City, people so Columbus city, if I remember, right, correct. And I didn’t have any methodology. But none of the 10 have committed an offense, a new sex offense. So that really what it is, is the luck of the draw. If if you go non compliant, meaning that particular homeless people are most likely to go non compliant, because the requirements escalate exponentially if you’re homeless, suddenly, the states have adopted that weekly reporting. Well, I hate to tell you, if you’re homeless, you don’t have any money to get to the office weekly. Right? And you don’t, if you if you don’t live in an urban area, or they have public transportation, what are you to do,

Andy 1:08:17
I got I got nothing, I got nothing on how somebody is supposed to live under these restrictions, and then also maintain the level of compliance. And if you’re homeless that you have to go report every three days, seven days, something like that, now you have to go visit the man so much more often. I don’t, it just seems to be set up that you are just you’re going to end up failing, I am going to see a way around that logic.

Larry 1:08:41
I am going to die fighting that. And it hasn’t surfaced in many years here. But that proposal is the most idiotic thing that I have ever heard, to impose on someone who doesn’t have the resources to comply your event, you’re essentially creating a debtors prison. Because they don’t have the $3 $5 $10 whatever it takes bidding on your I don’t know how it works. If you build a booth, I don’t know if they charge extra. But if you’re homeless, you may not have a phone that has the capacity to get an Uber you better have the money in your in your account to get an Uber. But if you don’t have the capacity to get to the office every seven days, you’re non compliant, then they’re out looking for you with a with an arrest warrant. And so you compound the problem, you put the person in prison at an enormous expense because they didn’t have any money. So that essentially became a debtors prison did Yes, and and people people in Arkansas, let me pick on you a little bit. You were so proud of yourself when you passed a law few years ago, that the person required to register had to come in every seven days. And they said how it fixed the problem. I said no, it really didn’t. And we’re still arguing to this very day about it because they think they fixed a problem. They said well, the judges here are saying how that they’re happy to have this. They don’t have to send people prison, because they don’t have an address. They never had to send them to prison to begin with. all they had to do was to find Arkansas law unconstitutional because of it said you had to provide an address. If you don’t have one, they would say this is a constitutionally because you cannot you cannot provide what that what you do not have. Therefore, it’s unconstitutional this component of as it applies to you as a homeless individual. And even the Georgia’s court did that many years ago in the state. This case was state vs. Santos. And they, the Georgia court decided that if you don’t have an address, you can’t provide one, therefore, it’s unconstitutional as applied to you. So rather than succumbing to a requirement that you did you check check in weekly, you should have challenged the constitutionality of the law that required a judge to send someone to prison, because the law was was bogus. It was unconstitutional to start with. But now they have more people, I’m sure if you if you pull the stats in Arkansas, you have people that are serving time, because they didn’t make their weekly trek to the office to register.

Andy 1:11:05
I think later, we should start to wrap things up. You want to get out of here in a handful of minutes. And so we can maybe shut down. Is there. Is there anything there on those last couple articles? I want to cover the last couple tabs that I have open? Before we shut out?

Larry 1:11:20
Well, we we are recording on Saturday night and the president designated as the president elect, the person designates president like that’s going to address the nation at eight Eastern time. So we were trying to shut down before that started, because otherwise I would be distracted.

Andy 1:11:39
Well, what I wanted to do is I wanted to I found something quite disturbing over on the norsok connections, a social media website that’s being run by the normal folks. And someone posted a picture that they saw someone in a pickup truck and it says shoot your local PFR. Like so if you’re in chat like you can actually see a picture of it or look at it on the YouTube side. It’s frickin amazing that people are driving around with shoot your local PFR einsatz.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:05
There there was a problem with that.

Andy 1:12:08
No, no, no problem at all. No problem at all. And then I guess let’s so I wanted to highlight that we have a series of patrons who have been with us for a very long time and incredibly generous to us. And I wanted to make sure that we acknowledge them. And Larry, if you will go first go forward and read the first five.

Larry 1:12:26
So that would be Michael A. Horace, David, Hank, and Gerald.

Andy 1:12:37
And then lastly, we have super patriot Mike, Veronica, Brian, Tom, and the all time most bestest, and it’s gonna take a lot for anybody to catch up to him is a Justin and thank you all so very much. It is incredibly endearing and appreciated that people are so generous with us.

Larry 1:12:53
And then we had an increase in a patron about so so I guess in terms of making this person mad, apparently we didn’t just they increase. Who was that?

Andy 1:13:041:13:04
Well, if the name is Michael M, and I’m not 100% sure if he’s a new one. And he came across just when we started recording as a new one. But he says he’s an old one. So I’m not really sure because our number went up by one but maybe, I don’t know. Anyway, Michael, thank you very much. It’s really appreciated. He’s here in chat too. If you see him there, he’s named Taz. doesn’t appear to be there anymore. But anyway, that’s enough of that. Um, and then lastly, started talking to one of your people, Larry, one of your new mexico alumni kind of folks. And he says something about maybe like, purchasing merchandise. So like, you guys need a merchandise. And I said, Well, we already have a store. And he went out and bought a shirt. So now he’s running around. He’s going to the gym and a hoodie that says registry matters on it. How about

Larry 1:13:48
that? Well, I bet it we’ve already picked up new patrons because of that.

Andy 1:13:53
That could be he said he’s like riding his motorcycle he puts on his best Mel Gibson and what’s the word madmax face and goes to the gym and works out with all the buff hot people and he’s wearing his registry matters podcast sir.

Larry 1:14:07
Now buff hot people. Can you elaborate on that just a tad bit so I understand what we’re talking about here.

Andy 1:14:14
I’m no I’m going to end up trapping myself down a deep, deep dark hole. If I do that, I will avoid that mistake as

Larry 1:14:23
well. Alrighty then how do people contact us if they should have any questions they would like to put on our list which I really appreciated the quality of the questions that are coming.

Andy 1:14:34
They would absolutely go to Google and type in registry matters and you will find it or go straight over to registry matters dot c o

Larry 1:14:43
or you could call 747274477 and leave an old fashioned voicemail. So simply if you can

Andy 1:14:53
do it the way that Yeah, no kidding. At all. You can do it the way Mike did and just press record on your phone and send me the mp3 of the WAV file. That works too and it will sound significantly better. Doesn’t sound like you put the little change in the thing and they’re like dial Tu, Tu Tu, Tu, Tu, Tu Tu, right. You remember those days?

Larry 1:15:10
I do I do I do. The how’s that gonna come across on transcription? They’ll sound you’re, you’re gonna

Andy 1:15:17
be I don’t know, I’ll have to look and see what other says,

Larry 1:15:21
okie dokie.

Andy 1:15:22
And, and then you can send email over at registry matters And of course, our favorite way. And we highlighted our favorite people tonight is slash registry matters. And, as always, Larry, anything else before we head out?

Larry 1:15:37
I think we’ve covered it. And I just would make a personal plea to everyone that that we are in a in a week long, almost week long of voting, vote counting. There are people who are who are very much hurt and disappointed. And there are people who are very happy. But we all should remember that we’re Americans. And we all want what’s best for the country. And all of us should pull together now because the voters have spoken. And we need to move forward to try to move this country and in a positive direction. And just hoping that folks will not turn ugly over over the outcome, whatever it turns out to be once the certifications are done. And there’s a there’s actually a real more formal announcement right now we have network predictions, but the states have to canvass and certify the results. And then it goes to the electoral college for a vote. But But you know, there were two countries almost evenly divided. And there are people that are very, very heartbroken and their people. They’re very happy right now. But we’re all Americans.

Andy 1:16:40
Yep, that should be something we talked about for Patreon extra coming up here shortly, I think

Larry 1:16:45
so, but let’s let’s just do the best to make our country as the best it can be.

Andy 1:16:52
Awesome. As always, Larry, thank you very much and I appreciate your time and expertise. And I will talk to you very soon. Good

Unknown Speaker 1:16:59
night as I

Andy 1:17:02
see you didn’t he Mr. Q mess the whole thing if we got to start all the way back over an hour and a half ago.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:12
You’ve been listening to F YP

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