Episode 29 – Testimony, Judges and LEO Oh My!

Larry and Andy talk about a hodgepodge of subjects. After coincidentally running into each other on the Interstate, we sat down to record a rare face to face episode.

How formal do you need to be while giving testimony?
Will monitoring panels be implemented in the wake of the Judge Persky recall?
Should judges be coerced to give harsh sentences because of public opinion?
We will be fighting these battles at the state level, not the federal level. We can have success by just showing up, versus losing by default for not being represented.

 

13 thoughts to “Episode 29 – Testimony, Judges and LEO Oh My!”

  1. It is, and always was, about the database. Our establishment (Ds&Rs) understood the future importance of the development of the electronic device. If one wants or desires to centralize their authority; what is the first thing you need?…a database.

    You not only need a database, but you must be able to utilize it to full effect to remain competitive. If State’s are granted authority (to indenture) their wrongdoing citizens to a database AND it’s maintaining (civil attack) THEN logically there is little else ( concerning individuals liberty) a state may NOT do with the database.

    Circa 1984 the MEN in grey completely understood the potential power of such a machine to both aid in the consolidation of resources, allies, and membership AND identify opponents, adversaries from other groups along with those considered neutral parties.

    The consolidation (at light speed) of those who disagree was viewed as a threat to national security. The SEX OFFENDER was the means to an end.

    ” I would think the U.S. government may use the database any way it damn well pleases”- Antinon Scalia

    1. ‘The database’ means what exactly? There isn’t a central database that I’m aware of. I’ve never heard any one speak to one centralized db.
      Does each state have some means by which they track DMV records, or felony records, also SOs? I think that answer is yes.
      Can private companies get the information from the state websites about who is on the registry? Yes, I would think so – within reason.
      Since you often bring this subject up, what evidence do you have that there is one? And how is it used?
      If it is then used, do they wrongly convict people into it? While I think the overall punishment is harsh, most of us did a thing that got us on the list. Not all. And maybe not to the degree to which you were charged.
      Are databases bad inherently? No – they are just a means to organize data more efficiently. Should we stop using databases all together? That seems a little extreme.
      If ‘the database’ is your issue, how would you propose we abolish the database? Or work around it.
      This podcast is about informing people on how to handle the registry. Some amorphous database is pretty hard to capture and then empower our people to do something about it.

  2. Gentlemen,
    The reason I insist on repeatedly bringing up the database perspective is that every American should rightly be concerned about the amount of information ABOUT THEM, is on these databases, both government and private.
    Simply put, the databases potential misuse bridges the chasm between registrants and the general public.

  3. Andy,
    Here a database, there a database, everywhere a database! Who said there is just one??
    NSA, Saratoga springs, Utah! databases used for warrantless S&S. Metadata gathered on ALL CITIZENS, found unconstitutional by the courts via 702 (,eff.org). Public safety needs are not advanced by collecting information on the law abiding, yet they did it anyway.

    Has Mr. Schumer not just authorized the public’s use of FBI data base?
    Facial recognition devices will now be widely used by private and public institutions.

    Like a gun a database can and does get misused. The right to defend oneself from the collection of personal information itself is obvious, though some disavow the right to remain free of it by volition. Do you honestly believe Facebook is not misusing information? With SOR we see the extreme exploitation of the database with dubious results. Bad results clearly implicates the purely political INTENT of SOR (the electronic list) in the first place.
    Do the people owe it to themselves to protect their kids…YES!
    Are they to leave it to the STATE & FED?
    Only if you’re nuts??

    Andy be honest do you not think the State’s individual SORs were not intended to be as one? Their interconnected nature makes it the default condition.

    That the people have opted for 50, instead of just one (1) is a product of what, efficiency, efficacy?…or was it just a bone for the unionized protection workers to get it voted for. After all Andy, you MUST placate both big biz and big labor to get anything done in D.C. That is a FACT!

    Some knew there was cash to be made from big data long before it was understood by the public. One may not just own a database, one must have unfettered use to gain full effect. For registrants the goal is to remain free of it. They only get what you give them. I created a email just for them, because they asked!
    I NEVER open the account lest they may start demanding I reply to their emails.

    BTW.
    In my most recent ” failure to provide” case 2011, I at trial posed the following question to the agent.

    Maam, SOR form demands all email addresses correct?
    A: Yes, they must provide all.
    Under threat of felony if they do not correct?
    A: yes, Up to 6 years.
    Maam, Do SOR agents intend to contact registrants via email?
    A:No, we currently do not contact or communicate with them by email.
    Maam. The purpose of email is to communicate is it not?
    A: yes ( shortened for brevity and over objection by state)

    Ma’am SOR agents, via form, demand email address for purposes outside of their normal use?
    A: I guess…
    Ma’am can you tell the Jury then the actual purpose is?? If it not to communicate?
    A: So it can be used, I think.

    Ma’am for what our that is used how?

  4. I liked the part about, did get any feedback from the conference, any good or negative. Actually Andy I still think your off the wall but than again I am too. On a serious note this is the forth podcast I have listened to and encourrage others to get in tune. Sure I didn’t hear your being biten by elephants as I think you’ve all been seeing to many pink elephantts. lol but on the positive side this was very informative
    .
    Believe it or not you guys do a good job and everybody should learn something about the registry. Larry was quite infortive this time and sure inquiring minds want to know or should we say inspiring minds want to know. I know you all talked about stumbling blocks, Paul dubbing talks about these laws from a lawyer standpoint and that these laws pr trao;s should rightly start at the state level. and law enforcement teaching if one needs the reasources to build or overcome this ordeal we are all facing.

    You talked aboutthe Me 2 movement which I could care less about. If thats the case we could talk about who was biting or enticed by the serpent and not a pink elephant. You talked about some crafting a different message. Well sex is no different than if one were in Rome but todays courts want a quick and easy solution but I never heard any why or how to fix all this yet or any proof or true meaning to all this.

    I was impressed by the “mob law rule” as you guys call it that seems to be against those that do these sex crimes. And yes women are very against things. Its like a slam, bamn, thank you ma’am and I’m gonna get ya sucker for doing this to me because I’m a women. I wonder who enticed Adam to eat the fruit than? Why did they eat the fruit, to make them wise. Ok Sandy study to show thyself approved.

    Now I know I have been knocked down a bit, on NARSOL forum, with my rightous talk but there is a difference between righteous and religon and there is also a difference between enabler and enabling. Sure when some of most were in those AA meetings we talked about enabling and I really didn’t tbink of it that way to use it in this sex offender situation. Something to ponder on.
    Now I’m sure Paul Dubbling was informative as you and andy are on this podcast, taking notes and listening is very important for all that tune in. Now you guys are doing a great job believe or not and Larry is still seeking a message. Here’s one divent prevention in sex laws and enviornment pursuasion, prevent, methods to help in changing this cricis of the sex offender and the hardships families members go thru with real truth about todays’ society and laws.

    Keep up the good work guys as you are really helping others that go thru all this worry by informing and conforting others.

    1. Ok, so let’s go from the standpoint that there is a database.
      You are on camera most of the day at convenience stores, atm cameras, stoplight cameras
      You internet usage is profiles by the Googles, etc. of the world.
      Police wear body cams, or have cameras in their vehicles.
      The surveillance has been increase with every increase in technology, or reduction in the cost of the technology.
      None of this has anything to do w/ the registry though.

      And here you are, all tin-foil hat screaming about ‘the database’ when the population of the world is under surveillance.
      But your IP never changes. You’re using an email address that is w/ one of the big ISPs who is at least capable of watching your traffic more so than any of the Googles et al.

      So why aren’t you using something like TAILS, or TOR Browser.

      It would seem if you’re going to go on and on ‘about the database’ that you would make efforts to leave as little of a digital signature as you can.

  5. My point exactly free men should be able to opt out! SOR gives no out. Therefore registration is actually indentured servitude to a state machine. Making humans subservient to machines is onerous territory. That so many go willingly is partly because they know not what they give up by doing so. Do you believe these databases can be used for real safety? Can new fangled electronic devices solve ages old social problems or merely provide political security for the establishment interests who MUST appear to give a damn? Big data, my friend, is more advantageous for the capitalists than the common man. Thanks for posting that url for eff.org price about NSA facility in Utah. Do you actually think it is coincidence that facility is where it is? Probably coincidence too that project ANGEL WATCH is housed there too? Missionary work anyone? Hard to find more fastidious record keepers than the Mormon church. BTW, that lot also holds abhorrent any sex outside of marriage bond.

  6. Not connected to the sex offender issue Andy? Does state not first justify a databases USE with SOR via the Whetterling act? The database is used to imply general warrant to the public for notice.They cry wolf via the databases USE. Problem is just because one is on the electronic list does not mean the notice identifies what that individual has actually done. Ultimately does the use improve harmony or promote real measurable safety of merely placate a violent societies need for vindictive retribution AND political advantage? Both Democrats and Republicans claim the other sides immorality. It has gotten so nasty precisely because we follow our leadership.

  7. 16-402 Carpenter v. United States (06/22/2018) – Supreme Court
    PDFhttps://www.supremecourt.gov › opinions

    Andy,
    I hope this hyperlink works. It should take you to this ruling in US v Carpenter.
    Here we see LAW ENFORCEMENT utilizing a database information in an unconscionable manner. This case specifically deals with location information from cell phone use. The king’s henchmen have always adored unreasonable S&,S. The exploitation of database information in this situation was used to make cases LEO couldn’t make without the warrantless search. This is exactly how they (LEOs) love to make themselves appear effective, when in reality they are violating the law. They hate limits precisely because it makes it more difficult to protect and serve, or as they often claim to protect the public.
    Will we abandon the database? Likely not. But there must be a limit on how far government agents may go. IMHO LEO often exceeds the limit concerning databases and apologize later. Here their behaviour was defended all the way to SCOTUS, just like SOR; with a much different outcome.

    SOR was upheld as was civil commitment, but in the long run, both policies will be found in error because the outcomes are more or less fruitless misadventure.

    1. We are the ones that give them the power to use information.
      My problem with your argument is you refer to this all as one database. You call it ‘the database’ This isn’t ‘the database’.
      These are records held by the phone companies for their purpose. The government didn’t hack into it, or have a back door to the data.
      They didn’t quite get a search warrant for it either though. There was a small barrier to getting it.
      Thankfully SCOTUS is seeing the incredible leak of data that our cell phones give off and are moving in the direction that it’s more than a PDA

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